Uh oh....standing his ground...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by outbackjack, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he actually put himself in more danger by going outside.
  2. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Where do you draw the line? I have asked you several times and you have DODGED the question? Tell me what is "worth" taking a life for? A car? A lawnmower? A bike? An expensive orchid? I'm asking you to tell me the difference? You won't be able to but I will enjoy reading you dance around it. Good luck.
  3. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    So you admit it was a dangerous situation. The law allows us to defend ourselves in dangerous situations right?
    And again you make assumptions about me. You are good at assumptions. Yiu make them about the man in NO as well.

    Here's a deal. I will continue to understand why this man decided to defend his home and his family in ...as you admitted...a dangerous situation. You can continue to think he should have hidden inside called 911 and hoped that the cops get there before the perp gets inside.
  4. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    We have no way of knowing if the perp was going to come inside. And if he did, as soon as he tried the guy would have a presumption that he was justified in shooting him (at least under Florida law). But you can't shoot someone just for being in your yard at night.

    The guy's defense is going to hang around his ability to put forth some argument as to what the kid did from 30 feet away that made him think he was about to get killed. That's not exactly a fun argument to have to make. Know what would have avoided it? Keeping his dumb self in the house where, if the guy tried to break in, he would have a presumption of fear to hang his hat on.

    Going and looking for (or knowingly interjecting yourself into) situations that do not currently represent an imminent threat of harm to a person, but may well become dangerous once you decide to join in, so that you can shoot someone is tremendously irresponsible.
  5. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    I have not danced around anything. I will try and stop the person from taking my property and if they don't retreat and attack me instead then I will defend myself. Unlike some of you girls I will not sit in my house and watch them leave with it.
  6. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    I know that if stayed inside and called the police he would not be arrested and the kid not shot.
  7. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    If you kill someone stealing your bike, you will go to jail for a long time.
  8. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    If the kid had been at home and not a career criminal nothing would have happened.
    Maybe the kid should of had a calling card. Something he could leave the day before that says
    I am alone. No accomplices.
    I am unarmed
    I offer no threat
    I will be stealing from you this week
    Please do not shoot me. I am just a thief.
    That way they guy would have known all of that before hand.
  9. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Then, unlike some of "us girls," you'll get to live the rest of your life knowing that you decided to start a confrontation that wound up with someone dead over some lawn tools.

    Sorry that I'm not interested in killing someone over a couple of hundred dollars worth of junk in my yard, even if I legally could? Hell as long as I wasn't in it when they tried to take it, I wouldn't kill someone over my car, much less any of the stuff in my yard.

    Would I hope they got caught and I got my car back? Sure. But I wouldn't hope they got the death penalty if they were caught, and I wouldn't think that it was worth having to live with killing someone to avoid the hassle of making an insurance claim if I saw it happening. I'd try to scare them off, but I don't want to kill someone (or risk getting myself killed) over much of anything I own, so I'm not going to put myself in that situation. Again, why do I have guns? To protect my life, not to save myself the deductible on my insurance.
  10. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    It is truly amazing how you are able to take someone else's words, twist them all around, and then make such an absolute proclamation. What a great gift you have there...
  11. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    Going and looking for (or knowingly interjecting yourself into) situations that do not currently represent an imminent threat of harm to a person, but may well become dangerous once you decide to join in, so that you can shoot someone is tremendously irresponsible.

    Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showthread.php?t=266992&page=11#ixzz2aX1oHBQq

    Excellent point: it's a shame that the 14-year old boy went and looked for (and interjected himself into) a situation that did not currently represent an imminent threat of harm to his person (i.e. staying on the OUTSIDE of the fence) that became dangerous once he decided to "join" himself to the fruits of someone else's labor...

    I think whitelike has a legitimate question:
    Do you kill for a potted plant? What if you have an elderly parent who buried their life savings/your inheritance in the yard and someone is outside with a shovel?
    In other words, money is a representation of your productivity and the value of your efforts in the marketplace. At what point is it okay for someone to take your productivity and not pay the utltimate price? Is it if the value is less than a day's labor? A month? A year? A lifetime? At what point does the thief put his life in danger?
  12. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    I am a republican and fiscal conservative. I voted for Romney. I see why our party is having so much trouble. We hang on to outdated dogma and refuse to be dynamic and change with the times. Wrong again, nice job!
  13. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    We have laws, no? We have a judicial system? The same piece of paper that GAVE you the right to bear arms is the same piece of paper that affords everyone due process. Killing someone for stealing is violating their rights. I'm not a lawyer but it seems pretty obvious to me.
  14. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Then charge him, plea him to probation if he has no prior record. Obviously he shouldn't kill the kid but the kid had it coming for breaking into the guy's property. If that's my husband, I'd stand behind him 100%. I'd rather he err on the side of protecting his family than to hesitate and have the thief break in. All you have to do is think of the horror of the Petit family (the doctor whose family was killed by burglars, but only after the girls were raped and then the house set on fire) and what can happen.
  15. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    I do not how many more times or how many more ways we need to say this.
    NO ONE is advocating killing someone for theft. NO ONE. (Well maybe the one poster up there...but I am not and most on here are not.)

    But that is NOT the situation we have here.
    Oh sure hindsight is 20/20. It is easy for the cops to roll up and see the kid had no gun, see the situation as no threat. It is easy for us sitting in our livig rooms to see a lack of threat.

    But to that homeowner in the middle of the night, in that part of town....I can understand why he saw a threat. Did he KNOW that the kid was just going to steal something? Because in NO home invasion is not uncommon. Did the homeowner KNOW the kid was unarmed? Because in NO armed 14 year olds is not uncommon. Did the homeowner KNOW the kid was alone...oh wait he wasn't. He had a look out looking for...cops.
    The homeowner doesnot get the benefit of knowing all the facts in the cold light of day. He didn't get to ask 20 questions. He had to make a split second choice. and he made it. To protect his family. I can understand why he would have feared for his life or his families life.

    This is not about yard tools or furniture no matter how often some of you want to make it or try to suggest it is. This is about a homeowner being put in a situation where he had to make a split second choice. One to protect his family.

    There is NO report of the kid trying to break into the car. There is no report of the kid trying to steal yard tools. The kid was in the yard. moving towards the house. No report says that he left when the porch light went on or when there was movement in the house. All of that makes a homeowner think someone out there is looking to do damage.

    I have every right to protect myself and my family. I have every right to protect my home. From any percieved threat. A man that is moving around and towards my house in the middle of the night is a percieved threat.

    Do not want to get shot? Stay away from the homes of people you do not know in the middle of the night.
  16. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    Do not want to get shot? Stay away from the homes of people you do not know in the middle of the night.

    BINGO.

    For the record, I'm not in favor of killing people for theft. As the victim of various violence (rocks through front windows, beaten up by gang) I do appreciate what a homeowner, awakened at 1:40 am by a barking dog, seeing a figure on his property, in a tough neighborhood, would consider a threat. The time for counting "3 mississippi" elapsed when the kid hopped the fence.
  17. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    uh-huh. :roll:


    Not even man enough to admit it, huh? Is that "edgar" with a small "e" or a big "E"? :laugh:
  18. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    When seconds count, the police are only moments away.

    Homeowner suggestion for trespasser detected outside of house: Throw the switch on the corner floodlights, pause a second, open the front door and from the threshold rack the pump shotgun shouting "what the %&*^&*)^ are you doing, the police are coming !!!", draw a bead with finger in the guard.

    Of course, if the intruder is there to assassinate the residents, it is a different scenario.
  19. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of variables involved in this, but my guess is that this man picked a very, very wrong time to shoot this kid with all the Trayvon Martin stuff going on.

    I doubt he's going to be shown an ounce of mercy in a court in an area like NO.
  20. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

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