Uh oh....standing his ground...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by outbackjack, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Trespassing isn't punishable by death (nor should it be, nor should it become de facto punishable by death just because there happens to be an armed idiot who hasn't thought through that you are killing someone nearby when it happens). That's why pretty much everywhere has the rational requirement that you either reasonably fear for your life or have the presumption that you are fearing for your life that comes with someone forcibly entering an occupied building or vehicle before you can shoot somebody.

    As I've said, I own a number of guns, have a concealed permit, and carry. But I've also got a level enough head to realize that having the right to defend myself if it comes to it doesn't mean that I'm entitled to kill everyone who wrongs me whether my safety is threatened or not.
  2. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    Let me give you my example. I live out of town. It takes at least 20 minutes and most times more like 45 before one police officer will get to my home. It sounds like Whitelakegator is saying that if someone starts taking my things that I worked to pay for out of my sheds and barns I should not take a gun and try to stop them because I might get "pistol balls". Screw me and my property. Just let them have it. So where does this end? Can they kill my dog too.
  3. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Without question, yes, if your choices are let them have your stuff or kill them you're supposed to let them have your stuff. The law does still value human life, even if the person is committing a crime. Neither stuff nor pets justifies killing someone. You can defend property with reasonable non-deadly force legally. But you can't kill people who don't present any threat of physical danger to you.
  4. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Unfortunately, there are way too many paranoid individuals for them to make THAT Call outside of their homes. Too much room for error. I can't fathom some of the idiots that I know that own a gun being able to make that determination correctly. Sorry. Too many guns already to allow these decisions to be made. Where is the line drawn? I'll say it again. In your house, shoot to kill. You're making quite the reach to start saying people on your lawn are threatening you. Because you are making some huge assumptions that the result equals death.
  5. outbackjack
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    outbackjack Premium Member

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    The law is so murky nothing seems to matter anymore.

    One of the most important parts of the GZ trial, to millions in the general public (of which makes up a jury)....was the color of skin.

    That's it.

    Color of skin, not in that law, yet that was the most important thing to so many.

    So, can we not all agree this was a criminal, a lifetime criminal, who left unchecked would have left a path of destruction in his wake, robbery, and most likely, murder.

    He is now dead (or severely wounded).

    Good.

    Saved lots of good people.

    It was either going to be him, or the many good people he'd rob/kill.

    I vote for the known criminal to go down, not the good people.

    I hope all criminals are dealt similar fates.

    Don't want to be dealt that fate, DON'T BE A CRIMINAL.
  6. el_lagarto
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    el_lagarto Premium Member

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    emotion says shoot the pecker head....3 times just to be sure. b/c hes a no good trespassing pile of dog squeeze.

    but anybody with an ounce of common sense has to wonder what the LAW is going to say about it. and if you shoot somebody dead, the law is gonna come knockin.

    this homeowner put his freedom at risk by killing the guy.

    i would not have done that unless........... i had an extra gun to plant on the guy and had time to fire a bullet from said gun in the general direction of my home.

    if your gonna claim self defence or SYG, for chits sake , at least make it appear you were in imminent danger.
    id take my chances for pets. get me a few pet owners on the jury.
  7. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Actually, knowing everything about GZ and TM in hindsight? There was no doubt GZ was going to shoot someone...either an innocent person or criminal. He was on a fasttrack to an individual getting killed. No doubt in my mind.
  8. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying just sit in your home and let them have at it take your stuff, kill your pets. Or are you saying don't take a gun with you just go out there a say "hey you guys stop doing that"? Just don't take a gun with you because you might shoot them if they reach for their gun or appear to.
  9. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but you're betting on jury nullification to do so. By the letter of the law (unless you can make the claim that the way he killed the pets, i.e., gun shots, made you fear imminent harm to a human) you're not legally justified in doing so.
  10. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Personally? I'm going to call the cops, turn on outside lights, and stick my head out the door and yell at them. I'm not going to go out and try to physically stop them, even though I own plenty of guns, because I don't value anything in my yard or shed enough to either 1) risk getting myself hurt over or 2) having to kill someone over if my attempt to stop them escalates into violence rather than just scaring them off. I have insurance for a reason.
  11. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Someone comes in my house and I do not hesitate. But in my yard? Absolutely not.
  12. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    Ben I know the law and as I stated before I sure as hell hope I never have to shoot anyone. I sure as hell am not gonna let someone come on my property and take my hard earned things without confronting them. I sure as hell am not going to confront someone without protection. I sure as hell will go to jail before I let someone shoot my dog or take my stuff if thats what it takes.
  13. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, just wanted to make sure everyone knows that if you shoot someone for snooping in your shed, you're gonna go to prison for it. That may change if you go outside to use non-deadly force in defense of property and they do something to put you in fear for your life, but when I weigh that scenario for myself I think it's a pretty easy call to say that I don't own anything sitting in my yard, shed, or driveway that is worth me dying over or me having to live with killing someone else over. Particularly when I factor insurance on those things into the equation.
  14. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Stuff? A potted plant? You are going away and for a long time...well deserved I might add. You are definitely not capable, IMHO, of owning a firearm.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    If you are going that route I think you should just keep your head inside and not take any chance at all. You must live in a completely different world than I do. Let them do that and when you come home the next day from work you have no siding on your house or maybe they go ahead and take all the stuff inside knowing you are passive enough to let them take your property from you and only stick your head out the door and yell. I just reread what you typed and laughed out loud.
  16. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I've got insurance for a reason. What do I own that is worth me killing someone over - or potentially getting myself killed over? Not a damn thing, particularly not that's sitting in my yard or shed. The idea of killing someone in a fight to the death over my riding lawn mower is one of the more absurd things that I can conceive of.
  17. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Man, imagine killing someone over what would amount to a broken window on a car.

    A life to save a car window.
  18. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    Say what? Did you take some kind of pill where "stuff" means potted plant. I just laughed out loud again.
    :grin:
  19. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    That husband, that father had to mak e a split second decision. He did not ask to be put in that situation. He did not ask to have someone jump his fence and come towards his house in the middle of the night.
    He ...not you in your comfortable home being all self righteous with what you think he shouldnhave done...had to make a decision.
    Who are you to decide it was right or wrong? Where you there? Do you live in that neighborhood? But you feel qualified based on what to know what this amn shoumd or should not have done in that situation?
    It sucks the kid is dead. It really does. And the law may find the man guilty...and if it does so be it. That is how our justice system works.
    But the real issue is you can't see any percieved threat in what went down. I can.
  20. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    He MADE a decision to go outside the safety of his home and interject a firearm into an already dangerous situation. I see it as him trying to take the law into his own hands. The law does not allow this. He will probably go to jail. The children will now lose a father and possibly themselves end up in a life of crime. Why? Was it worth it? Call the police, have your weapon ready, stay safe. Be alive and out of jail to raise your family. Do you realize how paranoid you sound? It is scary that people like you have a gun.

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