They have now infiltrated our military

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatorman_07732, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    You do understand the group in question is not fighting for the option? I just proved that with a quote from the person that is leading the fight. Try to understand, the option is not the problem.

    You're wrong about it not being officially there

    This is straight from the AF brochure
  2. exiledgator
    Offline

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,238
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +3,906
    Yes.

    Is it previous issues that have you so outraged, or this issue?
  3. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    Let me answer your question with a question. Is the AF or the military in general sanctioning a religion?
  4. exiledgator
    Offline

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,238
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +3,906
    Actually there is. See the indoctrination material given to missile launch cadets.

    Are YOU aware of the previous gripes of this group?
  5. gatorchamps0607
    Offline

    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    41,527
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ft. Myers, Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +3,957
    I can't speak for the Air Force specifically but at MEPS they went out of their way to allow both sides of the fence to be comfortable about the situation (regarding the oath I mentioned earlier). In Navy bootcamp if someone wanted to go to church on Sunday morning, they were allowed to do so. We were never forced in any way whatsoever. It was "if you're going to church today, go now". Through A school and being stationed in Norfolk, I can't even recall hearing about God in any form from anyone.

    I've never seen or heard of anyone being pressured into believing in god or not believing.
  6. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    Can you please list the policy as it pertains to the pentagon.
  7. exiledgator
    Offline

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,238
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +3,906
    You're really having a hard time answering questions in this thread.

    But I'll play along: There is no official religious sanctioning in the AF. But there certainly has been unofficial sanctioning. And while unbending guys like Weinstein fight for removal of all religion, Wildmon's AFA fights for Christianity's existence.
  8. asuragator
    Offline

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,534
    Likes Received:
    4,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,085
    You are naive to the military. It isn't even about stated "formal" policy. It is also about informal subcultures that exist, as it is in every organization.

    See here
    See here

  9. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    55 complaints since 2001 in the military is hardly an epidemic. Surely that is a small enough problem that can be handled with discipline procedures if even all of them are legit.
  10. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    So what specific religion is god pertaining to that they want removed and not optional?
  11. exiledgator
    Offline

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,238
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +3,906
    Here's the source document. Since you are so up to date on the MRFF, I figure you know the story.
  12. exiledgator
    Offline

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,238
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +3,906
    You're the one upset about infiltration, aren't you supposed to be enlightening us?

    I'm the one saying this is a non-issue. There's been a complaint. Big whoop. Someone called our office w/ an outlandish complaint last week. Guess what: we had a meeting about it.
  13. asuragator
    Offline

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,534
    Likes Received:
    4,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,085
    But you are up in arms about "infiltration" because the AF is considering dropping the word god from their oath? It probably shouldn't have been in there in the first place. Even if it's not in there, it won't change whether religious minded military folk can observe their religion.

    Would you be able to honestly admit that to yourself?
  14. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    I see various religions mentioned in your source. Is there something about religion that you find objectionable? I mean that source is from the Chaplain Corps. Are we now to remove Chaplains? There are Chaplains that represent all religions in the military. Seems to me you have a problem with that.
  15. exiledgator
    Offline

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,238
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +3,906
    Between your inability to answer questions, your projection of ideals onto others, and your tendency to jump to conclusions, you are proving to be very difficult to have a conversation with.

    So I'll leave you with this:

    I do not object to religion, we should not remove Chaplains, and I don't have a problem with Chaplains.

    You asked me if the AF promotes religion. I said not officially, but gave you the source document of one of the more infamous unofficial religious promotions in recent years - simply supplying the facts you asked for.
  16. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    That document was from the military chaplains.
  17. Bushmaster
    Offline

    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +956
    The truly bothersome thing about this oath is some cadet, who has yet to do jackshit for this country, can think of nothing else to do than complain about the oath you will take to make yourself an officer.

    Sorry, if you are that damn selfish, find another line of work. If you will complain about this, you are the type of asshole that is going to complain about everything in the military you don't like.

    In my earlier days, you would have your ass beaten with a bar of soap in the bottom of a pillow case and taped to your bunk. So how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win? Rawrrrrr!!!!

    Sorry, had a Full Metal Jacket flashback.
  18. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,588
    Likes Received:
    2,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,218
    Why shouldn't it be there, especially if you're not forced to say it?
  19. rivergator
    Online

    rivergator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    32,607
    Likes Received:
    452
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,338
    why should it be there?
  20. philnotfil
    Offline

    philnotfil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    12,928
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +865
    Why should it be there, especially if you're not forced to say it?

Share This Page