They had 4 years to prepare

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. MXGator
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    MXGator Premium Member

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    Ben, the answer to your question is pretty simple. Companies will have set the cost employees will have to contribute for a company plan - the cost has to be the same, regardless of pay scale. When you have a wide range of incomes (executives vs. janitors), picking the right cost becomes quite difficult. Pick a low cost that is appropriate for the lower incomes and the business ends up paying a huge portion of the premium cost, even for those employees that could afford to pay more. Pick a higher cost and the lower income employees can probably qualify for a subsidy and obtain the insurance for less money on the exchange - resulting in a $3,000 penalty to the business. It's a no win situation. Of course, it's hard to know if this is still what businesses will be facing because they never finished writing the rules. Thankfully, they postponed implementation. However, I suspect that a year from now we'll still be looking at many of the same questions/problems.
  2. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Good grief! I am assuming that you have a limited business experience. Otherwise you would of understood my answer.

    First of all the true unemployment rate is far higher than the make believe one the Oval Office cheers about. Companies are not hiring like the did pre 2008 and probably won't for a good while. The employers have a lot of people to chose from. There is no need to offer healthcare benefits to be competitive in recruiting and hiring .I agree that this factor is not directly a product of the ACA but the ACA did put this factor in play.

    Second, it is least expensive for a company to pay a $2K penalty than a $6K or $8K premium.

    Third, it is even less expensive to go to part time workers because there is no penalty. Better yet they can move the jobs offshore and avoid the entire mess.
  3. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    You're STILL talking past what I'm saying. My only point is, employers that say they dropped coverage because ACA made it too expensive are using it as an excuse for already wanting to drop insurance for other reasons.

    You just admitted as much, not a single one of your explanations for dropping insurance even suggests that the ACA changing the pricing for employer contributions is in any way related. If "it would be cheaper to pay the penalty," it would have been even cheaper still to drop coverage last year when there was NO penalty, so we can rule that out too.

    So basically, we agree that employers who say they are dropping insurance because ACA made it too expensive are full of shit. That's my ONLY point. I'm not saying dropping insurance isn't a good business decision, just that a business pretending they dropped it altogether because ACA raised the prices is flat out lying.
  4. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    This is the first step to the single-payer, and everyone has to have health insurance or they give their own hard earned money to Obama-scam.

    Also, Did you happen to notice that the cheapest Obama-scam plan has a $5,000 for one young healthy person. Meaning that a young healthy single person would pay $5,000 premium plus have a $5,000 deductible per year.

    That means that if you get sick you still pay out of pocket until you;ve spent $10,000 in one fiscal year. Is that what you call insurance? And to top that all off that's the cheapest plan a single young healthy person can get.

    $10,000 per year!!!
  5. benheb
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    benheb Well-Known Member

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    I didn't have to look too far to find information contradicting this

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/?p=63297/

    Have you heard of google?
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  6. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    heb- please feel free to post what the costs to the individual will be-including deductibles

    not sure your link refuted anything and when I clicked on the link they had it said it had crashed-all the delays and crashed sites again go back to my OP-they have had 4 years to be prepared and so far it is a cluster phuk
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  7. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Think real hard at what else is on Obama's plate.
    The end of the Bush Tax cuts.
    Higher energy cost.
    More taxes and costly regulations.

    All if this has a big impact on the bottom line.
    The businesses have to cut expenses to be viable. Why pay $8K when you can pay $2K per employee. Why pay anything when you can hire part time. Gov't has encroached too far into the day to day operations of business.
  8. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Nice pipe dream. The Dems want to up the corporate tax rates and increase the cistvof both energy and labor. Where do you think they will get that money from?
  9. fredsanford
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    I'm sure this is nowhere near true.
  10. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Business's voluntarily started subsidizing insurance plans a hundred years ago. They had a hundred years to drop the subsidies but they didn't 't until now. What do you think upset the applecart to cause this sudden change in position?

    I have read many of your post and I have yet to see one that calls out Obama or the Dems on anything. From what I have read your side is blameless while the other side wears horns and a tail and fatties a pitch fork!
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Ezra works to the commies...nuff said.

    And did you actually read that article... 30 million will still be uninsured... and that article never gives a number for out of pocket except for this tidbit below. Obama-scam is not Medicaid. The cheapest Obama-scam - Bare bones coverage - that makes you pay an undisclosed amount of money for your deductible and out of pocket after you go to the hospital.


    How much is the average hospital visit? with the cheap Bronze plan (if you make less that 25,000 per year) you still pay 40% of that visit.

    That is a total ripoff. Unless you qualify for freebies like the illegal aliens do.


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  12. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    From your link:
    s catastrophic? Wow that really is a crappy option.
  13. benheb
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    benheb Well-Known Member

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    I just tried it and it worked. There is a table of about twenty cities with ACA monthly bill in the $100 - $150 range. All much less than $10000 a year.
  14. LittleBlueLW
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    All of the sudden everyone without insurance is going to have 100-150 per month to pay into the system. Right.

    Translation: Everyone currently paying in pays more to cover these folks.

    Another social handout. Brilliant way to buy votes for eternity. Bravo.
  15. OklahomaGator
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    But if enough employees drop out of the program because of the increased costs it can jeopardize the original plan itself because you don't have enough employees in the plan to make it cost competitive. Then the employer has to drop the coverage altogether.
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  16. baygator1
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    baygator1 Well-Known Member

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    I know who ultimately pays for it...was just explaining why some businesses might drop health care altogether. Managing employee benefits can be a very time consuming and expensive proposition, especially for small businesses that don't have an 'HR department'.
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  17. FlyingGatorII
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    Ben's a smart guy and he knows this. He just refuses to admit it as he prefers to argue the technical aspects of this law instead of the effect it will likely have of forcing everyone into a single payer system.
  18. HallGator
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    I agree with this take and it's something I was talking about earlier. I believe many companies would like to get out of the health care portion of employee benefits and now is a great time to do so. This is not a knock so much as an observation. Companies have a perfect right to offer/not offer health bennies.

    The down side to this is that many employed people who can afford good plans, with the help of their employer, will now run into problems keeping their present level of coverage.

    As portion of pay it sure seems to me that health insurance is much steeper than it was years ago. Working in the insurance business during the mid seventies a BCBS major medical plan for me and my wife, with maternity, was a small part of what I made.
  19. benheb
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    benheb Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm...

    I believe the table used a baseline value - a specific age and income level - not "everyone". But I'm sure you checked it out - with you being so open-minded and all. :roll:

    But no, bravo for you sir.

    You said "everyone currently paying in pays for everyone's healthcare" is a social handout.

    Don't you know you are describing the pre ACA condition? Why can't you get that? Have all of those years listening to talk radio and fox news prevented your brain from processing facts?

    But you don't want to make those "people" (whoever you guys think these lazy bums are - their children too) pay insurance - that would somehow in your mind be worse with regard to "social handouts". Bravo.
  20. RealGatorFan
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    Question. I thought employers with more than 50 employees has to provide healthcare? Do they drop theirs and then pay the cost of the exchanges?

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