The worst website ever only cost $634,000,000..

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mocgator, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    brainstorm was the one who first quoted them and he is not a "leftie." Neither is everyone who disagrees with what is posted by the far right on this board.
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  2. philobeddoe
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    philobeddoe Well-Known Member

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    We'll, in all fairness, context is important and I was responding to good old "old" ..... See my post quote .... And good old "old" is hardly "not as 'leftie'".
  3. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    I agree with context however more than one of us made contrary posts so I wasn't sure.
  4. brainstorm
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    brainstorm Moderator VIP Member

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    Okay - I did pass along the Fox report and questioned the huge number BUT after digging around the original link to the govt site I am having second thoughts.

    First, the govt outsourced this entire thing to CGI. $$$

    They likely had to build the functionality from scratch. It isn't simply a website - like your Aunt Barbara's blog about her kitty cats - but an enterprise application that uses a web front end. Think about Amazon.com for a moment.

    The entire thing is a major undertaking.

    You need a lot of stakeholders at the table to come up with the requirements for the system. They will come from a variety of places - govt agencies, insurance companies, vendors, etc. All of this takes time and it is billed by CGI.

    You need a lot of geek power. Systems architects. Business Analysts. Systems Analysts. Coders. Database - developers and DBA. Web Developers. Graphic designers. Systems and Network Administrators. Security. Q&A. You get the idea. None of these guys are cheap - even if you off shore.

    You will need enterprise strength applications so expect costly consultants from companies providing these platforms. And even costlier systems. And hosting - you will need a strong, high availability datacenter, powerful servers, redundancy, backups, monitoring, etc. Look for a CDN or Cloud approach. Again, you get the idea. And yes, it is very expensive.

    Content - lots of content to be entered into the system and processed. And E-commerce - a big can of worms in terms of third party integration and security/compliance.

    And whatever the cost, since we're talking the govt here you should automatically double it. At least.

    So, at the end of the day, it isn't surprising that such a massive project might cost a massive amount of money. And have some issues at launch.

    That doesn't mean I am for the ACA - I'm not. But from a development point of view there is no way this was going to be quick, cheap and rock solid.
  5. reformedgator
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    reformedgator VIP Member Premium Member

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    Perhaps you should adopt that as your personal avatar.:wink:
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  6. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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  7. JerseyGator01
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    I guess the theory of Obama's campaign being technologically advanced has now gone out the window. It obviously was all about 110% Dem voter turnout ... at least.

    CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!
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  8. fairfaxgator
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    fairfaxgator New Member

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    Very fair post. IT costs are very hard to determine.
  9. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I agree for the most part but I think the important lesson to take away from this is to not trust government expense forecasts.
  10. g8orbill
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    hell if it is only 93 million the damn thing still doesn't work-they has over 3 years to get this thing up and running and they could not do it-prezbo knew several weeks in advance it ws not going to work and he still said go with it-shows his arrogance and yes his stupidity

    if this were a private business and this happened the creators would have been fired and a law suit would have been filed to try and recoup some of the money

    old instead of posting pics of a pile of chit why don't you weigh in on how the well the website works for this plan you think will be so great
  11. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    Could be months or even YEARS to fix the $634million web site.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101100403?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cheadline%7Cstory&par=yahoo&doc=101100403%7CFull%20fix%20to%20Obamacare%20tec




    Play VideoObamacare still 'glitchy'?
    Thursday, 3 Oct 2013 | 1:41 PM ET CNBC's Bertha Coombs reports that many officials are recommending people go to call centers to get information.Some insurance experts warn that the federal Obamacare marketplace has a month or so to heal itself or risk harming enrollment. Others say it could be months, if not much longer, before the website is free of tech problems.
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  12. QGator2414
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    This
  13. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    While this is all true, $600M is still far outside of the realm of feasibility.

    I've seen companies create such enterprise applications with a larger scope with $10M in Series A & B funding. My company was able to match our clearance requirements for our application for under $1M.

    It absolutely still does not add up.
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    If you surmised an average salary for contractors doing BA, development, project management, analysts, DBAs, IT and security experts, you'd probably end up around $120k if it's in the D.C. area.

    To make it add up, given a $15M annual expense for infrastructure (and that's an intentional high ball for government bloat), that would mean 1,500 people working on just this project for 4 years to add up.

    Now I could see 1,500 people being involved in the first year, in the decision-making, vendor selection, architecture, etc. But beyond that? 1,500 people on a single project is absolutely ridiculous. It's at minimum the kind of thing that would produce enough load testing to not fail on day one.
  15. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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    Funny...

    First, you're a little math challenged there (make that a lot math challenged):

    $15,000,000 / 1,500 people = $10,000

    1,500 people @ $120k per year = $180 Million

    Second, if you think you can get a well-qualified IT developer through a consulting firm in the DC area for only $120k all in, you're smoking crack. While the more junior ones do get paid that amount, you have to factor in fringes, FICA, SUTA, FUTA, Worker's Comp and the profit of the consulting firm. It will cost more like $200k per year in the DC area. And, that's before you factor in the cost of infrastructure.

    Third, consider other sites and the number of employees they have:

    Facebook: 5,300 employees
    Google: 30,000
    Yahoo: 11,700
    Ebay: 30,000
    Amazon (not a good measure because they have fulfillment): 32,000
    Groupon: 8,000

    You get the idea.

    Oh, and just in case you were wondering, the CGI Group (the firm that developed the buggy website) has 69,000 employees.
  16. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    No, you're confused as to what I was saying.

    That wasn't what the $15M figure was for. That was an annual expense for infrastructure. I said as much.

    That is exactly what I came up with. Multiply it by 3.5 years (which I rounded to 4 years) and you get $630M. Admittedly, $4M short of the exact figure. :roll:

    Again, you're confused. That is an average salary for all involved. A Web developer isn't making more than $100K in DC. How do I know this? I hire Web developers.

    And these are all *significantly* larger ecosystems with significantly more moving parts. They all involve more than one product and all have sales staffs making up a large majority of their employees.
  17. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Put another way, this Web site is not comparable to "Google," it's comparable to, say, Gmail. Google has about 200 engineers that work on Gmail, with an ad, QA and integration team of about 50.

    250 people to do something far more complex and robust than the healthcare web site.
  18. philobeddoe
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    philobeddoe Well-Known Member

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    This.

    There are so many examples of what government should not get into. In Alachua County ... the City of Gainesville runs a reasonably effective power generating operation that's been around for appriximately 100 years. But, in 2009 .. the City and GRU decide to get into the business of "buying biomass energy". Oh man .... what a fubar boondoggle this has become. This decision ... driven through the city by a bunch of bomb-tossing, tree-hugging, leftie freaks .... is likely to cost GRU customers rather significantly in terms of power from biomass versus what they would pay for power from other sources.

    The federal government had no business getting into the "insurance brokerage business" ... especially when it is overspending revenues at a rate of $1.3+ trillion per year.

    I fear that Barrycare is going accelerate the probable financial demise of the US .... if nothing's done to reduce its reach and cost to taxpayers ..... and the federal government is not quickly forced into operating at a surplus without the confiscation of more taxpayer financial resources.
  19. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Wanted to come back around on this, because I read some more interesting details on it:

    Noteworthy because the project was 2 years and $94M, not 4 years and $680M. I will say that these #s are far more inline with something that a big company would spend on a major endeavor and far less egregious.

    That said, the article details the many pitfalls associated with government contracting and does very little to dispel the assertion that the U.S. spent way too much on a substandard product:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-behind-the-botched-launch-of-healthcare-gov/
  20. npa
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    npa New Member

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    It must be a PeopleSoft product and if so they are not done spending money on it.

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