The secret, dirty cost of Obama's green power push

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    http://www.nbcnews.com/business/secret-dirty-cost-obamas-green-power-push-2D11577495

    oil bad, corn good....repeat as needed

    for more entertaining reading, check out what the Germans think about their green revolution and how it has impacted the cost of power and the stability of power grid in that country

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304448204579185720802195590

    google Germany Reinvents the Energy Crisis if linky no worky

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  2. brainstorm
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    brainstorm VIP Member

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    Unbelievable.

    G8trGr8t, you're an engineer. How could this sort of thing happen without any impact studies? Is it because farmers were already in business and there was no real need (prior to the cornahol law) since prices were relatively stable?
  3. LittleBlueLW
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    Saw this as well. The whole ethanol fuel thing is just another farm subsidy disguised as a green energy initiative.

    I am just pissed at what it has done to my boat motor, lawn tools and anything else you put this crap into.
  4. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    No question Bush was in lockstep with the enviro-statists. Ethanol has been an unmitigated disaster. These stupid asses created the exact opposite effect the proclaimed they were preventing.
  5. Gatorrick22
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    And I'll bet it GMO corn too.
  6. OklahomaGator
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    Ethanol has been a disaster. Driving up corn prices, which in turn drive up feed prices for chickens, turkeys, cattle and hogs. Then those prices rise in turn.

    I think it takes more energy to create the ethanol than the energy you get from the ethanol as well.
  7. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    That being said, there are multiple alternatives to corn based ethanol that are more efficient and do less damage. Politics as usual. Good intentions turned into a cluster #$%& so that everyone can "get their beak wet."

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=grass-makes-better-ethanol-than-corn
  8. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    go figure, unintended consequences..

    this is what happens when people only think one move ahead

    brain, the gubmnt was paying farmers to let grass grow under conservation easements in areas that had been previously impacted. when the price of corn spiked due to ethanol mandates, it made more economic sense for the farmer to plant the land rather than preserve it. in bigger picture, farmers are considered good so the damage they do does not make for good press. the dead zone in the gulf of mexico is from all the fertilizer that runs down the Mississippi, not from any oil spill, and it is growing larger every year.


    HATE ethanol, finally pumped my boat tank dry and refueled with rec fuel
  9. CHFG8R
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    And there's nothing wrong, IMO, with the government funding alternative energy sources that, at this point, not economically viable. That is investing in the future and it's smart. Just as it was smart with the space program (which never happens if left to "market forces"). The problem is when it's tied to political patronage, as is the case in many instances with Obama's policies.
  10. G8trGr8t
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    gubmnt needs to fund research into options, not try and financially back a full industry.

    the market should determine the most cost effective form of energy and the economy should be given access to the cheapest form of energy with regulations as needed to insure public safety, health but regulatory environment has went far too far in their reach to control the energy sources available to us using whatever junk voodoo climate change papers they can find to justify their position
  11. gatorman_07732
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    What the federal government had was a radical agenda. I wonder if Bush would actually admit that his ethanol policy was a disaster.
  12. CHFG8R
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    Are the two of you disagreeing with me or backing me up? I can't tell.

    Because what you are deriding is exactly what I was deriding. There is nothing wrong with government support of things like alternative energy sources, but they should be based on the viability and potential rewards of such technology not who gave you campaign contributions or who you can pull to you side with free government cheese.


    Again, the private sector benefited greatly from NASA's work 1950-2000. That never happens if left to the "market." Green energy (or renewable energy, as I prefer) is a good thing and worth the investment. It's the rampant graft that drags it down.

    And yes, I will admit that IMO . . . Oil = Bad. I hate it, hate the industry, hate their politics over the last 50 years (politics that give us our current situation in the mire that is the ME), but I also understand it's a necessity at this point.
  13. gatorman_07732
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    I agree completely. I'm just curious about the former president and what he would say.
  14. CHFG8R
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    He'd back those who have supported him and his family for the better part of the last century. Energy. Oh, and some nonsense about "supporting the hard-working farmer" (a.k.a. ADM, Monsanto, etc.).
  15. G8trGr8t
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    as long as the Iowa primary is critical and big ag and big chemicals stroke the checks everybody will love ethanol.

    You should do a little research on what domestic oil and gas industry has meant to this country in the last 6 - 8 years. It may be the only thing that kept us out of a depression when you combine the jobs created with the money saved by consumers due to cheaper electricity.

    Without cheap nat gas, coal plants would be installing CO2 sequestration equipment to meet EPA mandates and electricity is 30% higher. That means that all that manufacturing that has been returning to US doesn't because cost of power would be too high.

    We would also be paying $4.5 for a gallon of gas without the ramp up in domestic oil drilling in Texas, Oklahoma, ND, Louisiana, and ND. Imagine what our economy would look like with 30% higher electric costs and $4.5 - $5 gas next time you want to get mad at oil companies.

    The small to mid cap domestic drillers are creating jobs, keeping money here, and making generational wealth for many property owners around the country all while keeping the price of energy in the US at levels the rest of the world are envious of. Canadian oil is helping too as it is very cheap right now.
  16. VAg8r1
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    Corn-based ethanol is a bad idea, but is Obama really to blame?
    Doesn't sound like it was Obama who signed the legislation. The dirty little not so secret is that politicians of both parties supported legislation mandating the use of ethanol because they wanted electoral votes for their party's presidential candidate from states where corn production is a significant part of the state's economy.
  17. gatorman_07732
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    We covered that already. Come on VA, this thread is still only one page
  18. CHFG8R
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    Good for them. But that industry is not the end-all-be-all and has been self serving in its lobbying for years. We could be much further along if not for them and these profits could have been made years ago. Along those lines, I guess we should just keep the current tax code because it employs so many IRS workers, accountants and financial services folks, right?

    Look, I get it. I'm not stupid enough to think we can go cold turkey or that some magic bullet will appear in the next 10 years. But I also think there are a lot of negatives with the current energy cabal (national security being No. 1) and I don't trust them one bit nor do I think this country should (or needs to) do them any favors. This is why, IMO, government SHOULD fund research into alternatives, but do so in an honest and intelligent way instead of a political give away.

    Then again, I would also like to see us do away with the partisan election system and move to a non-partisan system. Don't think I'll be seeing either in my lifetime.
  19. CHFG8R
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    Ethanol is not the problem so much as Corn-based ethanol is. It is, from everything I've read, the most inefficient means of producing ethanol. Sadly, it isn't even the total cost that keeps us from moving to switchgrass or something similar, but simply short term outlays (to build the infrastructure) and laziness that motivates the push for corn.
  20. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    There are some people with scrapped motors that would disagree with you. Ethanol was pretty harmful.
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