The Real Reason the Country's Going Broke

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ncbullgator, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I haven't talked at all about what they get paid. They'd probably make a little less in a new system, but doctors in Britain still make plenty of money. We could also offset the relatively slight loss of income with medical school subsidies for the sake of fairness.

    Uh yes, we do. Miranda Warnings advise you of your right to an attorney. It specifically says that if you cannot afford one, a court-appointed attorney will be provided to you. You're barking up the wrong tree, bud.

    You don't have a right to a civil attorney, but universal healthcare also generally doesn't give you a right to elective procedures like plastic surgery.

    As was already proven, you are wrong.
  2. ncbullgator

    ncbullgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Selfish is demanding your working neighbors pay your bills.
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  3. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Oh, you're back. Any chance you're going to admit that your earlier statement was wrong?
  4. ncbullgator

    ncbullgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I posted numerous links on a number of topics.

    I can't spend the entire day, like some, sparing about topics where no one is going to change their mind and the posted retorts are casually dismissed as political or opinions.

    Enjoy your dinner and let's beat the Dogs tonite.
  5. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I can't say I'm surprised. It takes a lot of humility and self-defense to admit when you're wrong. Some people just aren't accountable for their words.
  6. ncbullgator

    ncbullgator GC Hall of Fame

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    If your response makes you feel better, good for you.
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  7. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    You advocate universal healthcare. Control over what can be charged.

    There is no universal legal system. Your red herring of one scenario is an attempt to deflect. There is a reason you continue to ignore most legal services are fee based.

    You clearly support universal control of one industry. But not yours. Selfishness at its finest.
  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You've restated this multiple times and been proven wrong each time.
    1. Universal healthcare doesn't cover everything. So no, the entire industry won't be controlled.
    2. There is a universal legal system. You have a right to a lawyer in a criminal trial. It does not matter if you can afford that lawyer or not.
    3. Even if we go to universal healthcare, healthcare will still be fee-based.
    4. Universal healthcare does offer some control over what is charged, but doctors still get paid well. They'll make less than what they do now (specialists moreso than GPs), but people have to make sacrifices for the greater good.
    [​IMG]
    5. Anticipating you trying to bring lawyers into this again, lawyers have already made those sorts of sacrifices, so you'll need a new approach.
  9. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    You need to sacrifice. I should not have to pay $300/hr for a good lawyers time. Stop with the red herring. How much of the pie do you think public defense is for all legal services?

    ***again I don't really believe this***

    Just showing the selfishness of some who are not willing to sacrifice at the expense of others while telling others they must sacrifice.
  10. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    I personally did not like paying over $1K to let an employee go last year. I should have been able to just fire them for dishonesty. But thanks to lawyers I had to cross every t and dot every i. The money was well spent. As the employee declined the separation agreement and sought council against us from what we heard. Never heard from a lawyer though as my attorney did their job. They earned their money. Just like those in healthcare do.

    Just stinks some are selfish and refuse to look in the mirror...
  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    It's not a red herring. It is directly on point. Your refusal to acknowledge that fact speaks ill of your ability to have an honest conversation here.

    And if we're going to delve into civil law, lawyers already have to deal with legislation that caps fees. Tort reform laws are great examples of that. In addition to that, the courts and the bars also regulate fees in the industry. Fees for civil lawyers are already subject to a number of restraints. And on top of that, lawyers came up with contingency fees to allow people who can't afford a lawyer to hire one.

    As I have already proven, on the criminal side of things, there is already a system that guarantees you a lawyer whether or not you can pay. You're barking up the wrong tree with your analogy.

    Furthermore, even with universal healthcare, doctors would still have the ability to operate outside of the system (that I like). There would be a private option for people with the money to afford it, and doctors who do elective work would not be covered by the system.

    Well, you're failing in that regard. The people who advocate for universal healthcare believe access to healthcare should be a right, much like a person's right to counsel in a criminal case.

    Furthermore, it is quite ironic that you're trying to argue that I'm being selfish in wanting universal healthcare. I can afford healthcare now. I have healthcare. If we went to a system of universal healthcare, it would mean that my taxes would go up. On the other hand, it seems that you don't want universal healthcare because you don't think you should have to pay more for others to get medical care.

    My motives are a lot less selfish here than yours.
  12. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I don't think you quite get it. Applying the right to a lawyer in civil cases would only help lawyers. You'd actually be subsidizing the bad lawyers with government cash. Personally, I say go for it. We can have universal healthcare and a universal right to an attorney in both criminal and civil law. It ain't gonna hurt the lawyers to do that lol.
  13. gtr2x

    gtr2x GC Hall of Fame

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  14. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    Gator_lawyer, not sure how long you've been reading too hot, but I've been called selfish countless times by Qgator. It's his thing. He likes to call other people selfish.
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  15. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Well, hell, I'll be selfless. Give me universal healthcare and a universal right to a lawyer in every case. I'm willing to make that sacrifice. ;)
  16. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    SIAP...

    What is the real issue regarding healthcare in this country is that we have a culture that is almost exclusively self serving and not civic at all. So Nova Scotians are civic. Good for them. Swedes also. One of the siren songs of real liberal/academicians, whom I call "smart idiots" it is to free the human spirit by eliminating personal accountability. While the Swedes may one day pull off "nirvana", what we are in the US....and NO ONE can dispute this if you pay attention....is a bunch of fat, lazy, narcissistic, and REALLY stupid people with absolutely no self discipline, confidence or worth. And we are because we all get to play the "victim" card.

    THE best thing Bill Clinton did in his terms as POTUS was to make people work for welfare. They were MADE to obtain a sense of self worth and it worked...until the Dems decided they wanted sheeple and not discerning citizens. No one is making overtures or social reforms towards personal accountability. Heath care is a classic example.
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  17. lacuna

    lacuna The Conscience of Too Hot VIP Member

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    Selfishness is holding onto what you possess, refusing to share with those who have less.
    Demanding, or forcing others to pay you or pay your bills, indicates rapaciousness, the greedy attitude of a person with a predatory nature.

    Rapacious
    adjective
    1. given to seizing for plunder or the satisfaction of greed.
    2. inordinately greedy; predatory; extortionate: a rapacious disposition.


    Predatory
    adjective
    4. excessive or exploitive in amount or cost, as out of greed or to take advantage of consumers or patrons:
    predatory pricing. Seeking to exploit or oppress others.
    5. acting with or possessed by overbearing, rapacious, or selfish motives:
  18. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Just stop with your red herring. We provide public defense. We also provide Medicaid. So just stop trying to deflect. I should not even address this red herring. But good grief we spend more giving healthcare to people than we do public defense.

    Let me know when you are ready to take less income to help your clients...

    You are selfish based on this conversation. You are willing to limit one industries income but not your own.
  19. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Facts are Facts.

    While we (gator_lawyer and I) disagree that universal legal services would benefit the profession. I am confident he/she is not ready to have government dictate his/her fees.

    Funny thing is we have been in agreement so far on this thread. Completely agree with you on end of life care.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  20. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Yep.

    And universal health care will exacerbate the problem.

    But hey...we are $20 trillion in debt with a broke Medicare program. What possibly could go wrong with having the government take over healthcare for another 200 millionish people?