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The Real Reason the Country's Going Broke

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ncbullgator, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think we should be trying to keep 88 year olds alive for a few more months with expensive treatments. There needs to be some common sense there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    I would tend to agree but that is probably a harder call when it is your grandmother.

    I spend too much time working in hospitals, the thought of squeaking out a couple of more months with no quality of life doesn't appeal to me, not sure if I would change my tune when the time actually came.
     
  3. lacuna

    lacuna The Conscience of Too Hot VIP Member

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    The mention of the 3 to 4 times a week EMS visits reminds me of the thread we had in 2016 about a 72 year old man in Hillsborough County who was paralyzed from the waist down. He was bedridden, refused to wear adult diapers and called 911 for the local EMS crew to come and take him from his bed, place him on his bed side commode, wait for him to have a bowel movement and clean himself, then return him to his bed. Between January, 2014 and the middle of June, 2016 he had called 911 for this service 284 times.

    I looked online to see if there had been any change in this situation but only found the original article linked here. http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...hillsborough-man-calls-911-to-use-the/2282186

    "Any nonemergency call takes first responders away from what they're intended for," said county spokeswoman Michelle VanDyke. "There are better options."

    First responders are required by law to respond to each 911 call. County officials were not able to provide an estimate for how much each call to the Mahmud home costs.

    According to a schedule used by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to reimburse municipalities after an emergency, a fire engine costs $93.50 an hour to operate, not including personnel costs. Staffing on engines can vary, but they typically run with a fire medic, a driver-engineer and a captain. The combined minimum hourly wage for those positions is about $65, according to a 2016 county pay plan.

    If each call takes 30 minutes, including the time to do the required paperwork, the combined cost to run the engine and pay the staff for 284 calls is at least $22,500.


    ____________________________________________________________________

    This sort of thing is untenable and a tremendous drain on the publicly funded EMS.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Why don't they just note this guy's number and stop responding? Surely, we can make an exception for him.
     
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ronald Reagan was the last president to reform Social Security. It takes courage to make an honest effort to reform a major entitlement program. And Reagan was the last president that we had with real courage. Obama made a brief feint to reform Social Security, but his plan was to force republicans to take the heat for defining a plan to cut grandma's benefits while he sat back and watched. That was kind of a cowardly move on his part. Fortunately for Obama, the liberal media did not make a big deal over his comments.

    If I were a politician, I would be willing to cut Social Security. I would eliminate "sore back" as a category for disability (one of Reagan's few mistakes on domestic policy). I would be willing to delay SS benefits a couple more years for the younger generation. To me, these are no-brainers. The sooner you get them done, the more money will be saved.
     
  6. dynogator

    dynogator GC Hall of Fame

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    How about 85 year olds kept alive for another year? Eighty year olds for several more years? Where is the line,
    dang 'ole?

    The wealthy will always be able to afford life-extending treatment. So the misfortune of having no fortune is what, euthanasia?
     
  7. dynogator

    dynogator GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm more sympathetic to Social Security reform than cutting health benefits.
     
  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Nope, it's a choice. You pay for your own attempts to save/prolong your life, or you go into hospice. I'm fine with us paying for hospice care. It sucks, but life is about making hard choices.

    Although, I'm not a deficit hawk, so I'm not motivated to make this change. I just don't oppose it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    I agree, but keep in mind this is in a thread about the incredible costs of Healthcare for the elderly. So where is the cutoff? 80, 90, 100? At some point we're just throwing money down a pit. It's not pretty but it's just rational. If you had the option to extend the life of a 40 year old versus an 80 year old, you view that the same?
     
  10. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    No, the 'misfortune' of having no fortune is dying a natural death with dignity rather than trying to squeeze out one more miserable year.
     
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  11. studegator

    studegator Senior

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    My wife and I spent 10 days in Nova Scotia this past year. I was very interested in their view of Canadian healthcare. We did not meet/talk to one Canadian that disliked their system.
     
  12. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    My grandfather spent his last two months at Osceola Regional. He should have been sent to home hospice within two weeks. Osceola Regional made good money keeping that bed filled as long as they did.

    From my experience...it is quite easy to make that call.

    Another reason we should switch to an HSA model. If someone and their family want to spend the money for quantity over quality. By all means. But not their neighbors means.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Why should we delay benefits for the younger generations who will have people that truly need help? Verse means testing it so we help only those that truly need help?

    Now yes...I know the answer. It can’t be done because of our entitled mentality. But that is the noble thing to do. We should be concerned about helping those who cannot help themselves.

    I just don’t get why a person with a $30K a year pension needs the government to give them more. I understand they were screwed by SS. But their kids and grandkids are being screwed to a greater degree. Time to means test. And really means test.
     
  14. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    If you are healthy and waiting is no big deal...great.

    But when your society as a whole is unhealthy and obese. And demands immediate solutions to its problems. You need a market model with minimal government intrusion to get costs down.

    No doubt we need reform. We need to get the fascism out of medicine.

     
  15. LimeyGator

    LimeyGator Premium Member

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    If you're suggesting that Britons don't rate the NHS, you couldn't be much further wrong.

    It's certainly struggling at the moment as it's chronically underfunded. I'm not going to sit here and tell you it's not expensive - it is. And with certain bits of its management structure, it's bloated with too few frontline staff.

    But in the UK in principle, most people laud the NHS. If you're lucky enough to have private healthcare like BUPA, the waiting times etc are much shorter, but for what it is, very few can have complaints.
     
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  16. dynogator

    dynogator GC Hall of Fame

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    Pardon me, but what a load. There's nothing "dignified," about dying prematurely from a treatable condition...diabetes, for example. And who says the time has to be "miserable?" You're positing worst-case scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  17. 108

    108 Premium Member

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    a true overhaul of healthcare is what is needed...not simply reducing payments

    it's time for either true free-market healthcare (with catastrophic coverage), or true Single Payer with cost controls

    those who are profiting off our current system want neither of these
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. dynogator

    dynogator GC Hall of Fame

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    Are we talking about no Medicare/Medicaid here? Sky-high medical costs and no government assistance at all? Just kick the old folks out the door upon retirement with the phone number to the hospice center tucked in their farewell card?

    This is one sad, depressing thread, especially on Valentine's Day. :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    No. I am in favor of some form of universal healthcare.
     
  20. grumpygator77

    grumpygator77 GC Hall of Fame

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