The Otherworldly LeBron James

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by MadduxFanII, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    I don't really follow the NBA, and I know another thread about how awesome LeBron James is probably isn't needed, but...

    I was just pointed to his shooting stats this season:

    61 percent from the field
    49 percent from three
    80 percent from the free-throw line

    Damn. Rebounds are down a fair bit this year, but...damn.
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  2. twodaparty
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    twodaparty Well-Known Member

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    I've been saying since he was a high schooler at st Vincent st Mary's he could and probably would be the greatest ever. Nothing ever made me waiver from that opinion and I still hold it.
  3. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Those numbers certainly merit attention, Maddux.

    Twoda: I would probably say that he is already the greatest player in history. Not in terms of career stats or championships, but just as an answer to the question, "You need to win a game tonight, and you could start your team with any player in history. Who would it be?" He is just so dangerous in so many ways.
  4. twodaparty
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    twodaparty Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was cautious with my words because I didn't want to ruffle the Jordan jock sniffer crowds' feathers. LeBron can be Jordan, he can be Magic he can Oscar he can be a combo of the greatest players to ever play and that is what makes him better than them all..how he hasn't won defensive player of the year is mind boggling
  5. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I have given up trying to compare players of different eras. Today, though, I would take James and it wouldn't be close for second (though that second would probably be Durant, just ahead of Paul).
  6. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    I agree! For almost 35 years, my answer to that question would have been Wilt Chamberlain. Then, LeBron came along.

    Going back to his rookie season in the NBA, I'm still blown away by the fact that such a force of nature athletically was able to combine that athleticism with such a gifted passing game. Even though I'm sure a lot of LeBron's passing ability has to be based on talent he was born with, you would think such an athletic player - in this age of incessant dunking highlights - might have given short-shrift to that talent during his high school years. But, LeBron came into the league passing the ball with all the beauty we ever saw from Bird!

    When LeBron was still in high school, I had read the SI article "The Chose One" and had my cynical skepticism meter dialed up pretty high for this LeBron guy. I was expecting something along the lines of another Harold Miner (sp?) or something. But, LeBron's game had me enthralled from the first time I saw him play.
  7. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    I'm a Jordan jock sniffer, but I also would put Lebron as tied for greatest ever because of his size. He's just too big and strong. Jordan wanted it more. That's not to say Lebron isn't clutch etc etc, but Jordan got more out of what he had than Lebron has heretofore, but Lebron has more to work with, and he's a better defender simply because bigger players have more impact on defense. I'll be calling him the greatest ever unless he has a career ending injury before it's over.

    Jordan still has the highest win shares per 48 minutes, though, both in the regular season and playoffs. That even includes his last 2 years in Washington. Lebron is getting closer ever year in both, but he'll probably never catch him because of his first couple seasons. Jordan dominated from the moment he started in the NBA but it helped that he had a few years in college.

    Regular Season.
    Playoffs.
  8. twodaparty
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    twodaparty Well-Known Member

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    Yep people forget that LeBron was an 18 year old phenom coming straight into the league MJ had 2 years in college to learn, play on great teams and polish his game.
  9. jcp
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    jcp VIP Member

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    I would take Jordan first.
  10. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Yeah agreed. And not that I don't think Jordan was great. Obviously he was, but LeBron sometimes looks like a NBA player against college teams sometimes.
  11. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I would have said Wilt for most of my life, but somewhat recently I moved Jordan ahead of Wilt, mostly because of how different the training/culture is today. If Wilt were 18 today though, I can't fathom the monster that would be entering the NBA next year.

    Same with me on first seeing LeBron. I was expect some athletic Vince Carter type player, only to see something closer to Magic Johnson. And now the dude can shoot. Scary.
  12. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    He managed to score 35 points on 14 field goal attempts the other day.
  13. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Not to downplay the feat, but he also shot 11 free throws, so we should really think of it as LeBron scored 35 points using 19 possessions. Still a ridiculous 1.84 points/possession though.
  14. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I wouldn't underrate the value of Spoelstra's system on James's efficiency, either. James was great his first year in Miami, but once they benched Anthony and started spreading things out with Bosh at the five and James at the four, the entire dynamic changed and his shooting percentages have gone through the roof. Lebron has developed his post up game and now they can do a ton of things with him: run 4/5 pick and rolls or flat ball screens with three shooters spotting up, use James as screener in 1/4 or 2/4 pick and pop with Bosh as 5 camping in the corner (allowing James to shoot over a guard if they switch the screen or drive past a big if they don't), or just post Lebron on the blocks with three shooters and Wade cutting to the basket. Spoelstra has adapted what they run to the overlap in the games of Wade and James as great handlers, passers, and paint finishers by spacing the floor with shooters and running everything through the mismatches those two create.
  15. PowerGator
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    Good analysis. I follow the heat pretty closely and if I remember correct Spolestra went and watched Chip Kelly at Oregon. Spo then decided why do the same thing everybody else is doing when I have the personnel to be different. Then the 2nd year of lebron consisted of smaller but faster lineups with better shooters.

    I think Spo has also sought advice from Billy Donovan about going back to back.

    I like Spo. Good coach. Of course, I could look like a good coach with lebron on my team. But Spo seems to be able to maximize his talents pretty well and let the team have fun.

    Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry
  16. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    He is a complete basketball geek. There are better coaches out there who may develop players more or are smarter in drawing up situation-specific players, but Spoelstra seems to get both the analytics side and the hoops side and has integrated them well.
  17. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Spoelstra is clearly an excellent coach, but it looks like LeBron has been leading in the NBA in PER since the 07-08 season and has had a slightly higher PER in four of those seasons compared with this one. However, his effective FG% has definitely been on the rise. 65% this year? Crazy.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html
  18. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    James has always been efficient offensively because he produces in so many ways at the offensive end. But he has become far more efficient scoring the ball because of his diverse game and the way he is being used.
  19. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    Check out these chart shots last year for Lebron. He was the best player closer to the basket. Durant is actually posting some great numbers recently, pretty much just as efficient as Lebron was at the same point in his career. People forget he's still 4 seasons behind him.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...ntroduces-new-way-understand-nba-best-scorers

    By the way, it was 35 points on 23 possessions since he had 4 turnovers.

    Highest game score this year is Paul with 42 points on 31 possessions plus 15 assists, 2 rbs and 6 steals.
    Second is Durant: 37 points on 25 possesions plus 8 rbs 7 asts 3 steals and a block.

    Highest game score of all time is Jordan's 69 points on 41 possessions plus 18!!! rbs 6 asts 4 stls and a block. (Overtime against Cleveland)
    Kobe's 81 on 57 possesions is second, but no one was actually guarding him, so I don't think much of that one.

    Malone is 3rd with an insane 61 points on 30 possessions plus 18 rbs, 2 asts and 3 stls.

    Jordan's 2nd on the list is pretty impressive too: 59 pts on 35 possessions, 4 rbs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 2 blcks.

    Lebron first shows up on the list at 36. Jordan is on there 12 times before that. Obviously points mean a lot and Jordan was the most efficient scorer of all time. Wilt's 100 point game isn't there because box scores didn't include all the stats necessary, but just using his shots, free throws and points gives him a 79.5, obviously highest on the list. His total score was probably around 100.

    Complete list here.

    Lebron's best games have come in the playoffs.

    Formula: Game Score Formula =(Points)+0.4*(Field Goals Made)+0.7*(Offensive Rebounds)+0.3*(Defensive rebounds)+(Steals)+0.7*(Assists)+0.7*(Blocked Shots)- 0.7*(Field Goal Attempts)-0.4*(Free Throws Missed) - 0.4*(Personal Fouls)-(Turnovers)
  20. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    I agree. That's a false stat that gets used constantly. You've got to include the FT possessions to be meaningful.

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