The One and Done: A Discussion

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by BengermanV, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. BengermanV
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    BengermanV Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I was planning on posting this at some point, and it probably will never be as hot of a topic as it is going to be fresh off of a UK victory. This isn't a post that will hate on the idea of One and Done, but one that will hopefully open the discussion for everyone else. Here are a few things I wanted to talk about:

    1. Anyone who says that it's ruining the excitement of college basketball must be watching a different tournament than I am. An argument I often here is that the one-year rule sucks the best players out of college hoops and right into the NBA Draft. Well, if you look at three of the final four teams, they are comprised of players who (for the most part) won't have NBA careers. Which brings me to my next point...

    2. Outside of Kentucky, the other few schools that have adopted the "One and Done" recruiting philosophy of getting better talent at (maybe) the expense of more experienced guys on the roster, are gone. Duke is gone. Kansas is gone. North Carolina is gone. It's probably fair to say the strategy isn't unfair, and that it doesn't give any kind of total advantage to a team. Kentucky may be a special case, because of how many star freshman they have been able to accumulate on a regular basis. There's a good chance that changes next year, as it's probably safe to assume Kentucky has at least five players gone after this most recent run (Randle, Harrison's, Young, and WCS are almost all certainly gone). Next year, they missed on a lot of top talent -- likely evening out the reward of this years crop of talent if they leave for the NBA. Point being, the risk-reward makes the philosophy a questionable one to adopt unless recruiting is consistently elite (UK's has been).

    3. With that being said, I do think it takes a lot of reward out of the game for me on a personal level. As I watched Patric Young break down in tears yesterday, I realized something: There is no way in hell this experience for him would have been so powerful if he were a freshman. It just wouldn't have been. I see guys like Gordon, Randle, and the Harrison's after wins and I get a totally different vibe. Of course, they seem elated. Who wouldn't be? But they're used to winning, they've never had to know what its like to fail - what it's like to push through failure and succeed. And as I watch seniors tear up on the bench as they are taken down by the likes of Kentucky, my heart sinks. I don't like Kentucky (mostly because of their coach), but I like their players. Yet, I hate the fact that those seniors weren't rewarded for four years of effort that Kentucky will EVER have to put in to get to this elusive moment. It feels - for lack of a better word - undeserved. Of course that isn't true, and I wouldn't tell these UK players they don't deserve every ounce of excitement they will surely get over the next week or so. But why should I care that they are here? I will likely forget most of their names within the next couple of years, as %'s would tell me most of them won't be NBA stars. They were part of our lives as basketball fans for four months, and after they're gone, they'll get the reward of lots of money and getting to play the game they love for a profession. What about those kids that were there for four years? Nothing but heartbreak on a silver platter, for them.

    4. The NCAA needs to establish new rules. A player shouldn't feel forced into a year of college basketball (and academics, if your university is actually into that) if they don't want it. But like everything in our lives, if they do choose to go to school, they should be held to their commitment. At the very least, two years of college basketball should be mandatory before moving onto the NBA if that's what the player decides he or she wants to do.

    That's how I feel, what about the rest of you?
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  2. NoahBeanBizzel
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    NoahBeanBizzel Well-Known Member

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    I think we're a prime example of doing it the right way, and our starting lineup is full of student-athletes. This team doesn't make a mockery of the term "student-athlete", and there's something to be said for the way Donovan has built this team. Recruiting an occasional "one and done" is almost necessary to compete at a high level; recruiting an entire starting lineup of them is a complete joke.

    That's how I feel.
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  3. NoahBeanBizzel
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    NoahBeanBizzel Well-Known Member

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    Btw, Kentucky is a great team. There's no doubt in my mind that they can beat anybody in the Final Four. I just don't agree with how Calipari has built that program.
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  4. BengermanV
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    BengermanV Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm sort of onboard with this. I really don't care how Calipari wants to do things, and I don't want to tell UK fans what they should or shouldn't appreciate.

    All I'm saying is that I felt a hell of a lot better for Patric Young, SW, Will Yeguete, and Casey Prather than I did for Kasey Hill and Chris Walker. I almost feel bad for fans who don't get to experience that anymore. It transcends the game of basketball.
  5. 62gator
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    62gator Well-Known Member

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    Billy did an interview a few weeks ago and talked about the one-and-done issue. I thought his insight and angle was spot on. He is not in favor of raising the NBA age limit to 20 and "trapping" players in college for at least two years. Instead he said the age limit should be lowered, hence allowing them to go directly to the NBA out of HS.

    "College basketball coaches and programs are taking on all the risks," Donovan says. "The kid doesn't want to be in college and wants to be in the NBA, but because of the rules, he has to stay in college. Now you're opening yourself up for potential NCAA violations. … You've got players like Jabari Parker [Duke] or Julius Randle [Kentucky], and there is so much coming at these kids. If a kid takes something he's not supposed to take or he is enticed into something, it's the colleges that are put in harm's way. That's not right when the kid should have never been in college in the first place and should already have been in the NBA."

    The term 'one-and-done' should be changed to 'two semesters-and-done'.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
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  6. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    If Kentucky fans want to embrace Cal and his ideas, who am I to complain? What I have posted many times is that the model for the best system would be the Carmelo Syracuse team. You have a team that is based on growing many players into a system and then have that "lead guitarist" that puts you over the top. Nothing wrong with that under the current rules. But if our coach adopted the "Cal Way" I would seriously question whether my energy towards rooting for my Alma Mater's basketball team could be better served. I can't fathom that one-year hired guns would be on par in my affections as a group of players who grew up at the University of Florida and succeeded in the end.

    I am not naive about college revenue sports but this is not in the gray area. One and done as a policy is NOT where I would root. And as I have posted, if Kentucky went out early in the tourney and the guys (except Randle) decided to come back to finish their unfinished business then I would have applauded them. Unfortunately we won't know how that would have turned out. I expect all of the elite talent on UK will bail because that is why they came there. JMHO
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
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  7. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    I'd like them to adopt the baseball model -- they can go directly if they want, but if they go to college they have to stay at least two years (and preferably three). It would make college basketball a better game (imagine what we'd be like if we still had Brad) and would help the NBA by giving it some players with name value when they enter the league. And then kids who want to go to school can, and those who don't want to don't have to.

    But I also think that after the Northwestern ruling last week, the point is all but moot.
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  8. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    This isn't new ground for me as a UK fan, so I don't even have to try and picture how I'd feel. UK won the title 2 years ago. I was much happier for Darius Miller than I was for Anthony Davis. Thing is though, I was REALLY happy for Anthony Davis or any of the younger players. No doubt its more special for that multi-year in state kid though. I completely get it.

    That being said, I'd hesitate before turning this into a moral issue, as noahbeanbizzle did. I mean absolutely no disrespect to Chris Walker, but if he's a "student-athlete" as you suggest, then so are all of UK's players. I don't see why one way of doing things needs to be glorified to the degree that the other is inaccurately demonized. Chris Walker is a kid that just months before trying to qualify at Florida in the fall said in an article that he wanted to average 15 and 8 and become a one-and-done. I'm really happy for him and always said I'd take him at UK also. But spare me the notion that Cal cheapens anything or delves to a low to try and do what he's doing. Every UK one-and-done player has finished classes in the spring except for the one that wasn't an original Cal recruit. The team's gpa has risen every year he's been here and this year's group is one of the most inteligent, well spoken teams that I've seen in college basketball in a while.

    I think this year lays to rest the notion that "you can't win without experience." This is what people said before UK won the title in 2012. Then, after they won it in 2012, everyone decided that that title was won because of two sophomores, a senior, and a once in a decade talent in Davis. Well, UK just advanced to their 3rd final four in the last four years by playing 7 freshmen and 1 sophomore who's only tourney experience was a first round NIT loss. UK has knocked off three top 10 teams so far in the tourney. This doesn't mean Cal's approach is better or even as good. All it means is that there are many ways to win in college basketball.

    In the end, what I require for players that I cheer for is to go to class, be a good teammate and not get in trouble. If they stay longer than 1 year - great. But what I really care about are these other things. Also, while I love when kids stay longer in college, lets not pretend that this is usually because they are turning up a high draft pick for their love of learning. I think this is too often implicit in one-and-done discussions.

    Overall, though, BengermanV, I agree with your thoughts - as usual.
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  9. BengermanV
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    BengermanV Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I hesitate to turn it into any kind of moral issue because I really believe that any coach in the country would have taken UK or Duke's last recruiting class if they could. For me, it's more for selfish reasons than anything else. I want to see guys develop as people and as basketball players, and I want to be able to witness that. I also don't think players should be forced into the NCAA if that's not what they want, so I think players should be able to go straight out of HS if they want.
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  10. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    My best analogy is Brad Beal. I think the thinking was that he was going to be there for 2 years. But he developed and played really well in the tournament and the NBA was going to give him financial security. No one would have turned down that money because we enjoyed our freshmen year there and wanted another year or three. But no one can see Cal's M.O. and not know that he is promising them something akin to "I will make you money sooner than anyone else." And as I posted, if that was my coach's approach then I would probably find something better to do in the winter than root for UF in Men's basketball.
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  11. NoahBeanBizzel
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    NoahBeanBizzel Well-Known Member

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    Your entire second paragraph sounds like a man who has found the perfect rationale to justify something he's probably struggled with internally himself somewhere down the line. Because at some point I'm guessing that you-along with every other reasonably intelligent Kentucky fan-have admitted to yourself that the amount of bodies they've had roll out after one year is ridiculous, even if your pride won't allow you to admit it on this board. And that's okay. A similar sentiment would probably be parroted around on this board if Donovan was doing the same thing.

    As far as Walker is concerned, I never said that you can't recruit an occasional "one-and-done" here and there; in fact, I suggested that it's almost necessary to recruit an NBA-ready kid to put a product on the floor capable of winning it all. My beef, again, is that it differs from having five 18-year old kids on the floor. And whether you admit it or not, you understand the difference. And no matter what is said in defense of Calipari to minimize the fact that his approach does indeed make a mockery of the term "student-athlete", I'd rather see a group of four seniors win a title any day over a group of freshman.

    In the end, though, winning is really the only thing that ultimately matters. Everything else is just for show.
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  12. dailydoublecat
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    dailydoublecat <font color=blue>Respected Rival</font>

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    To me it all depends on the situation as each are different. If you have the talent and can go in the lottery it is my belief that you need to go. I do believe that every situation is different depending on the family situation in each case.

    In regards to this years Kentucky team I think plenty will come back IMHO.

    Jeff
  13. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I think all of your points are great and I agree with them wholeheartedly, but again this isn't the NCAA's rule--it is the NBA's. Until the league (and especially labor, which is in disarray right now due to the Billy Hunter fiasco) makes a change, we are stuck with it.
  14. BengermanV
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    BengermanV Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a fair point, tegator. But it is hard to say that that's Calipari's motive, and not his reputation. It's probably a little of both. Calipari tells players he can develop talent quickly, and players have seen proof of that being true.
  15. dailydoublecat
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    dailydoublecat <font color=blue>Respected Rival</font>

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    I have stated for years that I want my team to recruit the best of the best. Calipari and other coaches are paid millions and millions of dollars and it is to win ball games.

    I can not get mad at a player that leaves that is going to make millions. If they are interested they can always come back to school in the summer or take online classes to get their degree.

    I do hope the NBA goes to the 2 year rule, but for now this is how my coach recruits. I do wish he got a mix of players which I think he is doing to a degree. Lee, Hawkins, Harrison's, Willis, Johnson will all be back.

    Jeff
  16. NoahBeanBizzel
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    NoahBeanBizzel Well-Known Member

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    I respect your position and the fact that you don't act as if you care about anything other than doing what it takes to win games. And I'm not mocking you at all in saying that. At least you keep it real.
  17. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    That's not the whole story, though. He wants kids to be able to enter the league directly out of high school, but he has gone on record repeatedly saying he prefers something like baseball rule.
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  18. BengermanV
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    BengermanV Well-Known Member

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    The baseball rule is what I want. Fair to both the players, and the universities.
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  19. dailydoublecat
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    dailydoublecat <font color=blue>Respected Rival</font>

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    Well hell yes it's about winning ball games...this isn't the YMCA. I don't care if they stay one or four years but they better be able to play and help the team I love win.......I always keep it real, just tons disagree with me on this.

    Jeff
  20. GolphinGator
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    GolphinGator Well-Known Member

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    If there is any good that comes out of the "one and done" it is that Florida may continue to scoop up the transfers that take a little longer to develop and don't get playing time.

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