The new play book...

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by MyakkaGator, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. MyakkaGator
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    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

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    Good morning. As we all know, the players get the play book during the off season and get to learn and practice the plays if they take the initiative to do so. The only coach that has instructural access is the strength and conditioning coach (dillman) so the I've always questioned:
    1. How we'll does the s & c coach learn the new play book?

    2. If, let's say, the qb's & wr's start practicing on their own via learning to run routes as well as getting acquainted with Grier and JD getting his timing back..are the routes they are running really correct, with respect of not having the actual coaches instruct? The one caveat we have going for us is that Grier was a son of a really good coach and will be able to interpret the play book a little better, in my opinion.what say you?
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  2. ApexNC
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    ApexNC Well-Known Member

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    Your first question is a great one. The HUNH offense will certainly require a different type of conditioning than the eat-the-clock, pound the ball offense. Hopefully Roper will be able to work with the S&C coach to make any changes necessary.
  3. fox
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    fox Well-Known Member

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    Suicide drills
  4. grant1
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    grant1 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you always end your post with "what say you "?

    If the post is worthwhile, people will respond.
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  5. coach
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    coach Active Member

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    I've read previously that:
    When Cutcliffe/Roper trains a young quarterback, he begins with his most valuable asset: his mind. "I do not talk about passing routes with them for one month," Cutcliffe said at a coaches clinic in 2011. "All we do is teach them defense for a month. We teach them the history of defense. We teach them the history of the zone blitz. We teach them what it is, and what is happening in the defense. Once the quarterback learns coverages, it enables them to move on in the teaching progression."
    If Roper want's to continue with this process, I would imagine he'd need to work with QBs before spring practice. Not sure it's something they could do on their own effectively.
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  6. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    This is a common misconception of the arrival of a new OC. In most cases, yes, there's a new playbook because there's a an entirely new offense and new terminology installed, but in Roper's case, there is no "new play book", because there is no new offense.

    Roper himself has said that all the terminology will remain the same so the players don't really have to learn a lot of different stuff other than concentrating on changes in playcalls on down and distance, snap timing, the play-call selections that will be worked into the game-plans, some formation changes, the personnel used in those formations, and difference in timing routes that will occur due to the up-tempo we're allegedly going to use.

    The offense we're still going to run is basically the one Charlie Weis installed and Pease ran that same offense as well and he too, did not change the terminology because Muschamp didn't want that when Pease arrived. A "playbook" contains basically every play you can think of and differs mainly in how that particular coach adapt his own signals and formations to that particular play-call. The philosophy of the staff using that playbook determines what plays are used the most which play to the strength of the personnel.

    A good example is AU's offense, which uses basically7 or 8 different base style run plays every play, but they can differ due to the different formations, personnel, and direction of the play. Audibles also play a role but the base play become the identity of the offense.

    What mostly makes a play call different from one offensive system from another is 1) the offensive coordinator's preference to what he likes to do out of a particular formation, 2) the personnel he likes to use to run that play (say, a WR or TE used instead of a QB or RB), 3) the playbook terminology the player has to learn, 4) The signals which tranfers that play call to the field, 5) the down and distance situations as to when he calls a certain play, and 6) the blocking schemes the OL utilizes for the speed and application of the offense that best serve to help the play succeed.

    You therefore create an"offensive identity" for the team doing basically the same thing every game. Bama's Nick Saban has shown extraordinary success with this style, and of course, execution plays a huge role in make one's style successful, which in turn, comes back to coaching.

    This will all depend upon how Roper will adapt what we do on offense to make it best for the personnel we have to be the most successful, but one factor in that is the same terminology will be used so that there is no "new playbook".

    That said, it will also all depend upon how much the HBC will allow the new OC to "do his thing" and have an opportunity to be much more unpredictable, and call the more aggressive plays at different times of the game when they will actually take advantage of a defensive look/formation instead of trying to just run the ball between the tackles and try to physically overpower them like Muschamp's offense identity demands.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
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  7. gatordavisl
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    gatordavisl Well-Known Member

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    Pease's offense was not the same as CW's. And I doubt Roper will run the same offense as Pease's. One quote by Muschamp does not mean the offenses were the same (even with "tweaking").
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  8. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    I'm tired of arguing it. Yes it was basically the same base offense CW installed and ran, Pease only tweeked it, and Muschamp himself said so when Pease was hired because he was adamant that he didn't want to install an entirely new system and playbook that would confuse the players. And before you demand a link, go back and look it up yourself.

    Now, would I like an entirely new offensive system installed? yes, because keeping what we have now enables Muschamp too much leeway to meddle in it.
  9. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Given the expectations and given the implied "warnings" from upper management (JF), one would think that Coach has re-thought any involvement into throttling the OC, or restricting his independence. If, he did.

    So, I don't know if firing Pease was a sacrificial escapegoat(!), or whether there was intense disagreement about lack of production, or whether the lack of production was from the head coach's over-involvement in play calling, or just a basic offensive philosophy difference. We do know that QB and OL injuries, and OL make-shift position changes as a result had a lot to do with effectiveness / ineffectiveness on offense.

    Seems to me that the signals are that the Head Coach / OC relationship will be different this year, and I do think that what we will see is an OC installing his own scheme and running it to a very large degree, without being inhibited or fettered by Will.

    Again, nobody knows whether any of that OC vs. HC clash actually occurred, or to what degree, if it did, because NOBODY who would know, is talking about it.
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  10. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Well, like I said in my previous post, Roper himself said the terminology will remain the same, which means the base offensive scheme and playbook will remain the same, but if he's allowed to make his changes to the sytem and not be interfered with by the HBC, he has a chance to actually get this offense rolling in the right direction.

    But I hope what you described is the case, though due to Roper's own intimations, this will not be a "new" offense installed, just changes to the present one.

    In the spring, we'll probably see a lot of the up-tempo being used to acclimate the players to it, but I don't expect a lot of new stuff except a lot of running and getting done with Spring to avoid injuries. We won't even have our starting QB Jeff Driskel involved.
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  11. gatordavisl
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    gatordavisl Well-Known Member

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    I'm wonder if terminology implies the same scheme and playbook. Could an offensive system not run different routes and blocking schemes, etc. using the same or similar terminology?
  12. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Go back and look at my previous post. It's the only way I know how to explain the differences between actual different offensive schemes.
  13. DMann
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    DMann Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine a competent OC coming aboard this staff under these circumstances and not being assured the offense is his to run. WM has one year to get it right - offense, defense, the kicking game and special teams. Three of the four facets need vast improvements to sniff winning the SECE next year. We've played 14 games without beating a good team. Hopefully, the new OL coach and the OC are on the same page and the ST-LB coach is special. That being the case, WM's best opportunity to succeed is to concentrate on being a HBC, creating a singleness of purpose/plan to win and getting staff and roster to buy in 100%. Lets pray the 2014 recruits and this year's redshirts and walking wounded bring some tangibles and intangibles that were MIA in 2013. Welcome aboard Coach Roper. 'Hope you're given a voice in your OL coach's hire.
  14. NOTgaGATORanymore
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    NOTgaGATORanymore Well-Known Member

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    In honor of this post, I'm considering ending all my posts with "What choo talkin' bout Wiliis?"
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  15. gator07
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    Sorry I missed it, when/where did Roper say the terminology would remain the same?
  16. MyakkaGator
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    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

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    I didn't respond because I didn't believe his post was worth while...
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  17. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to go back and find it as another poster said so. They threw that at me in one of the other offensive coordinator threads and I took them for their word.
  18. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Holy cow I really hope this is not true. When I heard Pease was instructed to use the Weis terminology I thought it was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. And now we're not going to let roper utilize his own terminology? Luckily I can't find anything about that from googling around so maybe it's not true. Muschamp cannot be that dumb to do that again.
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  19. Brewski
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    Brewski Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen any Champ or Roper quotes saying that either. But, I guess it could be possible. There have been limited press conferences at this point, so maybe some twitter post or something...
  20. coach
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    It's not uncommon for a new coordinator to use the old terminology. That way you only have the OC having to translate his offense to the old terminology instead of the whole team learning all new terminology plus a new offense. Terminology has nothing to do with offense or plays run. This is just a way of speeding up the learning process for the team.
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