The Leftists Daily KOS Gets ObamaCare Bill: 'What the Hell Kind of Reform Is This?'

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mocgator, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Good point, but it's besides the point that people choose for themselves. It's the risk they chose. In their minds, they'd rather pay a rate two times smaller and risk potential medical bankruptcy than live paying outrageous rates with some idea of a safety net, that, let's face it, won't be nearly as safe as it's made out to be.
  2. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    Tim - thanks. Sadly, the proof of hypocrisy is self-evident when folks want something different than what is offered by the regime. It's not a disagreement about pros/cons with what they want it's how the people are labeled "trying to get away with..." choosing "crap."

    You cannot have you own unique Health Care. It's forbidden.
    You cannot have vouchers to choose the best educational situation for your children. It's forbidden.
    You MUST HAVE maternity coverage, even though you're a gay male. It's required.
    You MUST PAY and SUBSIDIZE abortion. Why? We must protect a woman's right to choose. This too is required.
    We reserve the right to forbid and require various items as we see fit, when we see fit. Rest assured, these are all in the interests of your welfare. We care. Also, some of the items we forbid and require of you are not forbidden nor required for a select few of our choosing. Again, it's all for the best. Sleep well. dear children....your Gov't is here for you.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Well said. So true. I mentioned it earlier, just reading into the comments of that Daily KOS article really gave me a small insight into some of the ideas some people out there have, and it was a little scary how far some of them would go to defend the ACA and accuse the poster of ignorance or stupidity.
  4. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    From a study on bankruptcies in the US:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

  5. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    And who pays for that medical bankruptcy? All health care users in the form of higher bills passed through to cover the losses and taxpayers in the form of bankruptcy administration costs.
  6. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    mdgator05: you have class to come back and at least give it the ole college try. I respect that.

    I copied and was about to post the EXACT two paragraphs you did below the link, before realizing you had already done it. C'mon - you're an intelligent guy - where in that story from CNBC does it say "...high deductible plans leads to medical bankruptcy."? Truth: nowhere, no how. Sure, I'll acknowledge that if someone pulls out a high deductible plan, AND DOES NOT PROPERLY FUND it, that the chances for medical bankrputcy are likely higher than the person with a low deductible plan. Okay, so what? Maybe folks with high deductible plans actually PLAN ahead and set aside money. Maybe it's actually LESS LIKELY to go bankrupt because people w/ high deductible plans actually prepare.

    Nowhere in the article does it provide any evidence that high deductible medical plans lead to medical bankruptcy. Nice try; but, GatorFanCF relegates this claim to a very high score on the "BS Meter."
  7. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Well you are being a bit dense here. But if you want a more direct causal statement:

    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Pub...ications-of-High-Deductible-Health-Plans.aspx

    I think the positive relationship between accumulated medical debt and bankruptcy should be relatively evident.
  8. ncbullgator
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    ncbullgator Well-Known Member

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    A privatized solution tells the truth about what the subsidy 2/3 of the 45 million are stealing from their neighbors. Obama's site hides this (classic liberalism).

    Because if it was a single payer, the looters wouldn't have to pay as much and the liberal solution would be Obama's printing press covering the difference.

    :smoke:
  9. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    mdgator05 said: "Well you are being a bit dense here. But if you want a more direct causal statement:"

    Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showthread.php?t=274694&page=3#ixzz2iP4Q6mPM

    mdgator05 - first off, stop talking to my wife.
    And, no, I'm not trying to be difficult - just trying to get you to man up and prove your point, which you still have not. Commonwealth Fund (who funded the 2nd link you provided) is all about access to health care for the poor & downtrodden. It's a great and noble cause but has nothing to do with proving your claim that "high deductible plans LEAD TO medical bankruptcy." Their study is particularly focused on lower income folks.

    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/About-Us.aspx

    Well, of course high deductible plans are bad for the poor - they are not properly funded on the back end. DOH. Different plans are different tools. It's like you citing a study that shows a hammer leads to problems when using it to change a tire. Yeah - it's not the right tool. I bet you could do a study that sports cars over 300 HP are particularly lethal for 16-18 year old boys - but does that mean that all sports cars over 300 HP are bad choices? I don't think that's true. Obamacare is LIMITING CHOICE and the earlier post decried the use of the Daily Kos blogger of a high deductible plan.
    Not every problem is a nail; hence, not every tool needs to be a hammer.
    Obamacare offers 4 hammers: Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze but somehow I still feel screwed.
  10. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The 54% in high deductible plans having trouble paying their medical bills is regardless of income. They discuss that it disproportionately hurts the poor in another bullet point, but the 54% number is without regard to income and their sample contains people of all income groups.
  11. ncgatr1
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    ncgatr1 Premium Member

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    I just talked to a life long democrat. He did some remodeling work on my house and also has a landscape business. I was at Lowes and ran into him, the first thing he told me was " f&$king Obamacare, my rates are going from $267 a month to $430 a month". When he was working at my house we would have these discussions on Obamacare and he would argue how good it was going to be. I just laughed when he told me.
  12. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    Last shot, this is from your link: "Over half (54%) of those with a deductible of $1,000 or more reported difficulties paying medical bills or are paying off accumulated medical debt, compared with just 24 percent of privately insured adults with no deductible."

    You omitted the part in bold - it makes a difference. The person with a 2,000 deductible perhaps is making payments (paying off accumulated medical debt) which I've done vs. folks with NO DEDUCTIBLE. The link does not say of the "54%" that 1% is having trouble paying his bills and 53% are making payments...it just isn't detailed; so, the study leaves it up to each of us to guess - hardly making your point about leading to bankruptcy.

    Finally, two links with neither showing any causality specifically between high deductible plans LEADING TO bankruptcy....and the best you've got is "well, it is relatively evident." Sorry, Charlie, only the best tasting tuna gets to be StarKist.
  13. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    So you don't feel having accumulated medical debt is related to medical bankruptcies? That seems like a logically absurd position given what bankruptcy is. The basic causation is high deductible plans lead to accumulated medical debt, which leads to medical bankruptcy. I showed evidence of the first step. I was unaware that the second was even vaguely controversial.
  14. mocgator
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    mocgator Well-Known Member

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    Sweet music..... sweet music...
  15. 108
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    i am a tax payer, who will pay for it one way or the other
  16. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    This Post is right on. I find little sympathy for these idiots who blindly follow their idols.
  17. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    Saldy yes I say tough $hit to him. In life all actions carry consequences. His action of voting for Obozo carries this one. If he feels defrauded and lied to he should've known better. Lots of us saw through his lies and BS. And Obozo got exactly what he wanted with his vote: the forfeiture of your liberties.
  18. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Well, the question was to a specific person who is a liberal and a defender of Obama and the ACA, however, your point is taken.
  19. brainstorm
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    brainstorm VIP Member

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    Well maybe. However, how many times can you file for bankruptcy?

    I guess with the ACA you can switch to a low deductible plan if you get really sick. Until then, high deductible plans for those who seldom get sick may be the way to go.
  20. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    "So you don't feel having accumulated medical debt is related to medical bankruptcies?"

    Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showthread.php?p=6928828#post6928828#ixzz2iRocShB8

    Your original post was that high deductible plans LEAD to medical bankruptcies. I asked for proof.
    Now, you've moved the goal posts to asking me:
    if I feel that it is related to bankruptcies? It is an irrelevant question as we were trying to determine if your original claim had any validity. It's like saying "such and such is BLACK" and someone saying "No, it's not black." And, now you're saying "you mean you can't see any gray at all? Sorry, your original claim is bunk.

    And to put a lid on it: the original reason for discussing high deductible plans is that the blogger on the Daily Kos perhaps had one and the Left, in defending Obamacare, was patronizing this guy by telling him how wrong he was to have such a plan. WRONG. Not misguided, not even ignorant...WRONG. He was "trying to get away with..." a "crap" choice.

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