The fine line....

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by MyakkaGator, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. MyakkaGator
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    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

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    It is said that there is a fine line between steadfastness and stubborness. Foley has done some amazing things as the athletic director for the University of Florida. For all of his success, his last two football coach hires (Zook & Muschamp; Meyer was Machen's golden boy.) have been in question and therefore highly scrutinized. My question to all on the board is at what point does does Foley's steadfastness cross the fine line to the point of stubborness?

    It's evident that I have my own opinion, however the monkey wrenches that are USC and Texas definitely do have an effect on Foley's decision. I believe there are some scenarios that could play out that could determine if Foley pulls the trigger or if he waits to see what happens for Muschamp next season.

    My worst nighmare is that if Texas (who just named their new AD today.) waits until next year to fire Mack Brown and Muschamp doesn't pan out, we will be competing against Texas for a new top-flight head coach. While I believe our Program can compete facility-wise and we have some excellent boosters, I do realize that Texas has much more funding to offer a top-flight coach..even if our recruiting pool is superior to Texas's recruiting pool.

    So when does staedfastness cross the fine line to the point of stubborness?
  2. gatorr4life
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    gatorr4life Premium Member

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    Meh, it's not always about money. Sometimes it comes down to simple things. Look at Meyer.... Not verbatim but close: "I asked my kids, the beach or freezing cold winters"? Keep in mind he really wanted to go to notre dame.

    Obviously his decision wasn't solely based on that. But I guarantee it was a big factor. You just never know.... Look at Peterson......he's probably been offered by over 50 schools by now. Still in freaking Idaho. I'm not worried about going head up with any school.

    Almost forgot, Brent Pease... Alabama winning championships, or Florida struggling? He chose us over an almost garununtee of winning titles.
  3. MyakkaGator
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    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

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    Great points. although it's not always about money, I don't believe that it can be ignored either.
  4. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    Or maybe Foley has enough guts and patience to let his young coach rebuild a broken program. Maybe Foley has enough confidence in his own judgement to ignore the sh!tstorm, and stick to his original decision to go young and grow.

    Maybe Foley who undoubtedly rubs elbows with Muschamp every day sees something that people sitting at keyboards, throwing darts, don't have a clue exists.

    Sometimes things just don't happen on the timeline that everyone wants them to proceed on. Sometimes you can't have everything you want immediately.

    Foley obviously thought Muschamp was going to be a great coach. He isn't the only one of course. But, Foley staked a lot on his judgement. I would be very surprised if he panicked a second time and fired a coach who was building a program while developing his own coaching skills.

    I expect there will be some crap thrown around about Zook, and how dumping him was the best decision ever; and his experience at Illinois held up as proof that he couldn't coach. But, all we have to do is look at the success, or rather lack of, that the Illini have had post-Zook to flush that argument. We might also recall that he took them to the only Rose Bowl in about a century. Foley did not make a mistake hiring Zook; he did not make a mistake hiring Muschamp. But, he would make a big mistake dumping another coach before he has had a fair chance. Can you say "grave yard of coaches?"; because that would become the reputation around the profession.
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  5. VanNoord
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    VanNoord Active Member

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    Now that's some revisionist history of note. Let's give the Zooker another chance.
  6. FLIPCUP
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    FLIPCUP Well-Known Member

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    Brent was one of over 25 individuals "looked at" in relation to the Bama opening. The hiring process for that position was involved. He did not have an offer from Bama.
  7. theghost
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    theghost Well-Known Member

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    I know weed is legal in California, but you really need to lay off of it for a while....
  8. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    IMHO, you lose all credibility by trying to stick up for Ron Zook. Zook was FIRED from UF and Illinois. Fired. Because he sucked at his job. This is indisputable.

    It is interesting you used the word "thought" he was going to be a great coach instead of "thinks". Maybe a little of your own self conscious there. Muschamp hasn't come close to showing "greatness". He may indeed get next year but let's all go on record on what he needs to do to keep his job. I don't want another year of excuses from people like you. It is ATL or bust. I also laughed at your "developing coaching skills" comment. He shouldn't be learning here. He should have been ready.

    PS Three years is hardly immediately. Stop it. You're making yourself sound foolish.
  9. MyakkaGator
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    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

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    All great stuff here...so at what point does Foley cross the line from steadfastness to stubbornness?
  10. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    Nothing quite like getting a reputation for firing a new HC after only three years, one of which was an 11-2 year. That would certainly be attractive to a prospective new HC and his assistants - "O.K., you know we fire HCs after three years if they don't meet the fans' expectations, right?"

    That's not the most compelling reason for giving WM at least one more year but it should be something for those who are calling for WM's head to at least think about.
  11. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Yeah, because Urban Meyer didn't come here after we fired Ron Zook. That turned out awful. Good point!
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  12. gator865
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    gator865 Active Member

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    Absolutely correct. Also a good point is that if WM wanted a spread oriented offense then he would have stepped into a program that already had those type of offensive players recruited. To completely change that concept to a pro style offense is what I believe is hurting us now. IMHO it takes at least 4-5 years to reap the benefits through recruiting ect.
  13. gatorfan96
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    gatorfan96 Premium Member

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    I really wish he hadn't
  14. Crusher
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    Crusher Well-Known Member

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    Then how can you explain immediate or almost immediate success here when Spurrier came aboard and chucked out the ground and pound offense and when Meyer arrived and won a NC in his second year with some concepts of the spread being key to the teams success? How can Bear Bryant take a pro-style passing offense in 1970 that went 6-5-1 and install the wishbone in 1971 and have immediate success with mostly the same players?

    Its about good coaching, something that we are sadly in need of right now.
  15. Claygator
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    Claygator Well-Known Member

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    Spot on! Why would any coach want to come to Florida, if he won't be given a fair chance to right the ship when the program is down? And if you don't think the program was down, reflect a little on Meyer's last year at UF. Remember how that team played? Muschamp deserves four years build his team, and our spoiled fan base is better served by shutting up. So is our program. If we aren't competitive in 2014 Muschamp is gone. Meanwhile, people should give it a rest--all this negativity could impact our recruiting.
  16. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    IMO failing to produce a competitive FBS-caliber offense on the field that ranks better than the bottom ten percent of the nation three years running is a fireable offense in its own. And I think that's something more tangible to point to other than "fan expectations". And I think prospective head coaching candidates would understand that and not shy away. It's not exactly setting an unrealistic standard.
  17. sHiNeR2
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    Florida CONSISTENTLY has the top overall sports programs in the SEC. I thinks its been like 14 years straight. I haven't read all of the comments, but if you're questioning JF's track record, you need to question every AD's record in the country. I guess he gets no credit for Mary Wise or Billy Donovan. What about our track coach, women's tennis, the swimming teams. All Gators are upset right now, but throwing salt at JF's record is ignorant if you ask me.
  18. newmexicogator
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    newmexicogator New Member

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    I have always felt Foley wants to be known as a guy who identified the diamond in the rough. It also makes business sense since he can pay a cheap salary for the first few years. I am not sure if these are true or not. I am just speculating. I just don't understand how he could have Muschamp as his first and only choice. Absolutely atrocious.
  19. Nicho
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    Nicho Well-Known Member

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    HCIW at Texas is not exactly "the rough."
  20. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he

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