That Keystone Pipeline is prone to accidents...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by DaveFla, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. DaveFla
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    More so than transporting the crude oil by rail... Yea, right!



    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ude-oil-derails-explodes-in-north-dakota?lite
  2. G8trGr8t
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    I was just going to post this. This is the fourth rail accident involving rail oil tankers in a year now and the use of rail to transport crude is growing exponentially due to lack of pipelines. Unfortunately, the Keystone would not resolve much of this problem but it would provide us the infrastructure needed to get Canadian crude to our refineries thus providing us a secure source of energy in the event that the ME blows up. Keystone is a national security issue like the suez canal is but the keystone is much easier to make happen, and much cheaper and better for our economy.

    We have to choose between pipelines, rail, or imported oil. Pathetic that we cannot get pipelines built east-west to move oil to the refineries on the east and west coasts.

    Remember who owns the railroad that moves all that oil though, good ol Uncle Warren making a killing with BNSF hauling oil
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  3. G8trGr8t
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    http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=12031

    With U.S. crude oil production at the highest level in two decades, outstripping pipeline capacity, the United States is relying more on railroads to move its new crude oil to refineries and storage centers. The amount of crude oil and refined petroleum products transported by rail totaled close to 356,000 carloads during the first half of 2013, up 48% from the same period in 2012, according to Association of American Railroads (AAR).

    U.S. weekly carloadings of crude oil and petroleum products averaged nearly 13,700 rail tankers during the January-June 2013 period. With one rail carload holding about 700 barrels, the amount of crude oil and petroleum products shipped by rail was equal to 1.37 million barrels per day during the first half of 2013, up from 927,000 barrels per day during the first six months of last year. AAR data do not differentiate between crude oil and petroleum products, but it is generally believed that most of the volume being moved in the 2006-10 period was petroleum products and most of the increase since then has been crude oil. Crude oil accounts for about half of those 2013 daily volumes, according to AAR.

    The roughly 700,000 barrels per day of crude oil, which includes both imported and domestic crude oil, moved by rail compares with the 7.2 million barrels of crude oil the United States produces daily, based on the latest 2013 monthly output numbers from the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

    The jump in crude oil production from North Dakota, where there is not enough pipeline capacity to move supplies, accounts for a large share of the increased deliveries of oil by rail. North Dakota is the second largest oil producing state after Texas, as advanced drilling technology has unlocked millions of barrels of tight oil in the Bakken Shale formation.

    More Bakken crude oil moving to market by rail has helped narrow the difference between the spot prices for Bakken crude oil and international benchmark Brent crude oil in recent months to its smallest gap—less than $5 per barrel—in more than one-and-half years. The narrower spread reduces the incentive to ship oil to coastal refineries. This development, along with the lack of railcars (some estimates cite a 60,000 car backlog) may explain the slower growth shown in 2013 carload data.

    [​IMG]
  4. gatornana
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    Accidents transporting oil is bad enough but you can't compare that to the dangers of the Keystone pipeline and tar sands.

    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/12/30/3107761/tar-sands-mercury/

    For those on the right who question think progress, Newsmax is reporting the same here:

    http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/mercury-tar-sands-ring/2013/12/31/id/544525
  5. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Rail accidents would endanger far more of the population than pipeline accidents. At last report, all inhabitants downwind, and within 15 miles(?) of this accident are being evacuated. With a pipeline, the routes are normally planned to avoid populated communities. Rail lines are the opposite.
  6. gatornana
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    Tar sand oil and the chemical mix used to enable the pipeline transport are pretty toxic......a tar sand pipeline leak in Kalamazoo Michigan made quite an area toxic and uninhabitable....efforts to clean it have failed.


    http://www.npr.org/2012/08/16/158025375/when-this-oil-spills-its-a-whole-new-monster
  7. OklahomaGator
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    The trans Alaskan pipeline has been moving oil since the mid 70's with only a few minor spills, including a couple of incidents where the pipe itself was shot with a bullet. My understanding is the Keystone will be buried so that wouldn't happen to it.
  8. G8trGr8t
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    Nana,

    We need east - west pipelines to move oil to the coastal refineries so they do not have to use imported oil. Most of the oil moving by rail is going east-west. There will soon be over 1 million barrels per day flowing out of North Dakota.

    Should we move all that oil by rail or by pipeline or should we stop using our own oil and import it (sending hundreds of billions of $$ out of the country)?
  9. G8trGr8t
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    and built in much more hospitable conditions with much better pipe material
  10. G8trGr8t
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    Newsmax reported what a environmental opponent has claimed that unknown government scientists will report to be a 16 time increase primarily due to oil production.


    1. It is a claim, not verified, just claimed.

    2. Odd that the government scientists were not mentioned by name or qualifications. Some government scientists also say that man made global warming is a settled science so without names, qualifications, etc being a government scientist carries no credibility to me.

    3. 16 fold increase from nothing is nothing. Notice that there was no mention of the level of mercury claimed to have been found and how that level compares to allowable levels or naturally occurring levels of mercury found elsewhere.

    4. Primarily is another word that deserves attention, especially considering the lack of details on the source of the claim.
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  11. Gatorrick22
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    Do you really think we need to pay more money for the food we grow to eat and feed to our livestock? And there are hundreds of other products made from the oil refining... Cheap oil means cheap byproducts to make plastics and other necessities of life.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  12. beanfield
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    Watch it...your making to much sense.....
  13. chemgator
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    Burying a pipeline makes it harder to maintain. It increases galvanic corrosion, and makes it harder to identify corrosion as it happens. Some pipelines in the chemical industry put one pipe inside of another, and blow air through the outer pipe to a detector at the end to see when the pipeline starts leaking. But that is expensive. You can make a pipe wall thick enough to deflect most bullets. Rail cars that are insulated have a secondary carbon steel shell (almost a half inch thick, if memory serves me correctly), and I have never heard of a bullet penetrating them (and I have worked with some of the more flammable chemicals that are handled by rail).
  14. OklahomaGator
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    Not disagreeing with anything you said but given the location, terrain, climate, earthquakes, etc., I think you would agree that keystone will be easier to build and maintain than the Alaska pipeline.
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  15. G8trGr8t
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    but current oil tanker cars are not required to be double hulled

    one of the rare instances where an industry has actually requested additional regulation. long ARII

    http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059990536

    A major rail industry group is calling for updating or phasing out thousands of tank cars used to carry crude oil, as federal officials weigh new regulations on moving hazardous materials by rail.
    The Association of American Railroads is urging U.S. regulators to require retrofits for roughly 72,000 older tank cars that haul flammable substances such as crude and ethanol, plus minor upgrades for an additional 14,000 newer cars. The AAR also recommends an "aggressive phase-out" of cars that can't meet retrofit requirements, the group said yesterday in comments filed with the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
    PHMSA, an arm of the U.S. Department of Transportation, is seeking public input for long-awaited updates to its tank car regulations. Two recent oil train explosions -- one in Quebec this summer and another last week in Alabama -- have heightened public scrutiny of the fast-growing crude-by-rail market.
    "We believe it's time for a thorough review of the U.S. tank car fleet that moves flammable liquids, particularly considering the recent increase in crude oil traffic," said Edward Hamberger, president and CEO of AAR, which represents the nation's largest freight railways, including BNSF Railway Co. and CSX Corp.


    Pipelines typically offer the cheapest way to move crude over long distances, but infrastructure has failed to keep up with booming production in places such as North Dakota's Bakken Shale and other far-flung oil patches.
    Slow pipeline buildout has made rail an appealing -- and in many cases the only -- option for oil producers hoping to get their crude to market. Improved extraction techniques such as hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling have also driven growth in crude-by-rail shipments. The AAR projects major railroads will carry 400,000 carloads of crude this year, compared to 4,700 carloads in 2006.
  16. G8trGr8t
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    [​IMG]

    think maybe we need some pipelines to get US crude oil to the refineries? We need pipelines east and west but environmental opposition results in the graph above and the numbers will continue to increase for at least the next 10 - 15 years as the bakken grows in production. no worries, uncle Buffett keeps cashing Burlington Northern checks and sending them to the dem party so they can continue to oppose pipelines
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  17. madgator
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    what do you mean????

    the democrat party doesn't cater to the demands of the rich
  18. Gatorrick22
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    What he means is that Obama caters only to his cronies and personal friends like Buffet, instead of doing what's best for the country.

    See: Soros and his deal with Brazilian oil investments he made a few years ago and how Obama shut down deep sea oil exploration in the gulf coast long enough for Soros to commandeer the two brand new deep sea oil exploration rigs that were just being completed. Soros and the Brazilian oil people love Obama.

    Obama spent 2 billion dollars on Brazilian oil the Chinese will get.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/oba...ur-oil-after-giving-you-2-billion-to-drill-it

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/braziloil.asp

    http://www.qando.net/?p=12359
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  19. madgator
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    I was being sarcastic


    sad thing is that there are people out there who honestly to the depths of their soul have been sold on the idea that democrat party is the party of the common man and have a monopoly on truth and virtue
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  20. Gatorrick22
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    Cool, I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy with Obama's concerns about oil.

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