Tesla issues continue to mount

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. g8orbill

    g8orbill Old Gator VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    100,265
    Likes Received:
    14,014
    Trophy Points:
    3,683
    Location:
    Clermont, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +46,365
    Tesla workers say the factory paint shop is a mess and fires are worse than Tesla let on

    from the piece
    Tesla has had at least four fires in the paint shop at its Fremont, California, factory since 2014, according to five people familiar with operations at that plant.

    One previously reported fire, in April, was serious enough to stop Model 3 production for multiple shifts that week, these people said. Another fire took place in January 2016 and caused at least a day of suspended vehicle production. Both fires damaged expensive equipment.

    These people blamed the fires in part on improper cleaning, maintenance and insufficient training for new employees in the face of high pressure to meet production goals. Two current employees said they were concerned about their health because of fire hazards and poor air quality. All the people agreed that the April fire contributed to slowing down Model 3 production.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    20,864
    Likes Received:
    746
    Trophy Points:
    908
    Location:
    Gainesville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +3,690
    Those workers might want to reconsider working there. My dad sold industrial paints and resins, and his office was in the same building as the plant that manufactured the product. This was before EPA and stuff, so if they ran a bad batch they would just dump it in the backyard of the building. It eventually became a Superfund cleanup site, and over 20 people that worked there died of cancer, including my dad, who died at 61. No job is worth that.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    A stringently anti-union automaker run by an Ayn Rand character has poor working conditions? Color me shocked.
  4. Rocinante

    Rocinante GC Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Ratings Received:
    +509
    My Dad, a retired Gator Industrial Engineer, who opened factories and ran them around the world says you have a man with great vision, leadership and ideas but he needs a pragmatist like Jobs had in Cook. Scaling complex manufacturing is the single biggest issue you’ll face when expanding.

    I had a project 17 years ago that was designed to scale high level project methodologies to our software distribution channel for large installs. The company did great when the solution was a departmental solution, but when it went whole enterprise in Fortune 500 companies, things fell apart. Company ended up buying a small group of ex Anderson guys to create a team designed to assist. They weren’t even held to making any money, just make sure installs didn’t fall apart.

    Hell, we hit a brick wall when we tried to scale a rather simple process we use to extract medicinal hemp. It was easy with 5 people monitoring a string of pressure cookers, move to a 500 gallon device, whole different game.
  5. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    58,916
    Likes Received:
    8,525
    Trophy Points:
    2,358
    Ratings Received:
    +36,713
    They need to open up a secondary assembly plant... in right to work state. ;):D
  6. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    They aren't unionized, so that doesn't really matter.
  7. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    58,916
    Likes Received:
    8,525
    Trophy Points:
    2,358
    Ratings Received:
    +36,713
    It's cheaper labor in right to work states that have no state or local taxes to, so...
  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    These are autoworkers though, you cant just hire people off the street to build electric cars. The availability of a skilled labor supply matters.
  9. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    58,916
    Likes Received:
    8,525
    Trophy Points:
    2,358
    Ratings Received:
    +36,713
    Many of them are aluminum welders... and there are plenty of talented welders and electricians all over the country.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  10. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    You can still unionize in a RTW state, and the industry already has pretty high pay everywhere because of the high union density. If you were a start up automaker like Tesla that took over a plant, like they did in Fremont (a former GM production facility). Would you spend mega bucks you don't have to build a new production plant, massively increase your overhead in a RTW state to save a negligible amount on labor, with no guarantee that the employees wont unionize anyway?
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,340
    Likes Received:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    423
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Ratings Received:
    +5,894
    Why are conservatives rooting against Tesla being successful? Maybe I’m wrong in that assessment but it seems weird all their bad news gets posted here quickly.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  12. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    8,466
    Likes Received:
    794
    Trophy Points:
    418
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +10,332
    Scaling has hiccups. News at 11.

    I doubt California nor Federal regulators are letting the Freemont factory ignore any of the rules.

    Musk is announcing a second plant this summer. Double the chance of fires!!!
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    They think electric cars are for wusses, basically. Otherwise, I cant figure out why they'd root against a union-busting libertarian that is basically a dude from an Ayn Rand novel. He basically embodies everything arch-capitalists claim to love about the creative destruction of capitalism.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    405
    Trophy Points:
    343
    Ratings Received:
    +6,118
    Some don't like the huge amount of taxpayer subsidies. Denmark a while back eliminated most electric car subsidies and the sales cratered very quickly. I think they may have reinstated a lot of them since then.
  15. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    I don't think they are 'huge,' but subsidies for energy efficient vehicles apply to all manufactures anyways. All the major automakers make hybrids and electric vehicles. So, that doesn't explain why they'd root against Tesla and for Ford.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. GatorNavy

    GatorNavy Damn the torpedoes! Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,735
    Likes Received:
    6,370
    Trophy Points:
    738
    Location:
    Space Coast
    Ratings Received:
    +10,454
    Who says conservatives are against Tesla? Broad brushing again?
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    Probably to a degree, there are a number of posters here that have started threads on Tesla's woes seemingly only for the reason that they think Elon Musk is some kind of liberal hero, probably only for the reason that the center right and left posters tend to like what Tesla is doing and have discussed it on the board frequently.
  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4,222
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    273
    Ratings Received:
    +6,512
    Tesla so far has mostly been selling $100,000 cars. They are least reliant on subsidies as whatever tax credit one would receive is barely a dent in the price of the car. It's almost comical. Really I think it's a bit silly we are giving subsidies on a $100,000 car, but it is what it is since the credit has to do with fuel efficiency not with price. In either case, I doubt a prospective $7500 credit impacts anyone's purchase decision on a $100,000 Tesla, like it would on say a Nissan Leaf or Prius Prime.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    14,152
    Likes Received:
    956
    Trophy Points:
    648
    Ratings Received:
    +12,617
    Except the fact that he would be bankrupt if not for gubmnt subsidies and contracts
  20. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    1,058
    Location:
    Geo-hell
    Ratings Received:
    +14,689
    Maybe, but the same people seem to overlook deviance from free market principles with other industries. That cant be the only reason.