Teacher churn

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    This article is specific to Michigan, but has lots of good stuff about teacher churn in general. One of the best things that we can do for students is give them experienced teachers. Our system is not set up to produce experienced teachers.

    mlive.com

    I'm kind of surprised that they didn't carry it out to five years. The numbers I looked at a few years ago said that only 50% of new teachers make it past year five.

    This is the terrible part. Bummer for those folks who give teaching a try and decide it isn't for them, but that has profound and long-lasting effects on the students.

    Some good stuff at the end about how to address the problem, shout out to Hillsborough county for their teacher retention program.
  2. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    In the future, only private schools will have qualified teachers that are worth a darn. Public schools will have second and third rate teachers. Dropouts will be a lot higher, welfare 3 times as high.

    The article is right. I remember in high school we got a substitute teacher in chemistry who flat out said "I don't think I'm prepared to handle the rigors of a classroom as a full-time job."
    This will become the norm in the future.
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  3. gator7_5
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    gator7_5 Well-Known Member

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    I plan on having to teach my own child if she attends public school.
  4. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    As one of those 10%, I can say this is accurate to my experiences.

    I found too many constraints, barely enough support, and daunting and unexpected requirements killed any notion of romanticism or nobility in the work. Combine that with a starting salary of ~$26K and I ran away to make many times that amount per year with relative ease.
  5. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    Can't blame you one bit. My sister did the same thing. It was never the academic part. It was always the after-school meetings with parents who take zero accountability for their child yet demand you make them a Rhodes Scholar.
  6. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    PC is the problem. Private schools can pay less with less benefits and outperform (sure there are bad/failing private schools).

    Until representatives grow a backbone and tell parents they must be parents and require volunteering and/or tuition we will continue to grow the daycare system we are creating. It is not about paying teachers more money but empowering them and removing beauracracy. Allow them to remove disruptive students without a headache etc...
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  7. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    Well said. Should work in theory.....until the lawyers get a hold of it and paint you as racist/elitist/supremacist/un-American, etc for trampling on someone else's 1st amendment rights.
  8. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    "Empowering people/teachers" = making them do more for less.
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  9. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    My kids' private school pays about 80% of what the local public schools pay. The teachers have no union and no pension, just a 403b.

    Yet, most of the teachers there are former public school teachers. And, the turnover is next to nil.
  10. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    Because they can actually TEACH! Their hands are not tied behind their backs. There is no govt or group telling them what they can or cannot teach. There are no parents on welfare completely disconnected from their kids' education telling them their methods/homework/etc are racist. There are no entitled parents who think the kid and themselves put in zero effort and the teacher makes a Rhodes Scholar out of then.

    And no, I don't discredit the quality of teachers in public schools or the students that graduate from them. I myself am a graduate of the public school system, but I am also not dumb enough and not naive enough to think it's perfect. I've seen its decline, and it is nothing compared to what lies ahead.
  11. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    I've never taught outside of substitute teaching, which is admittedly pretty different. However, last school year I had the chance to sub. for a specific class(8th grade) often enough to really build a relationship with the kids. It was enough of an experience to realize I no longer wanted to teach. Honestly, 65% of your time is in just trying to manage the behavior of the little devils(kidding - kind of).

    I had several actual teachers from the school tell me that I needed to just start writing actual referrals because kicking the students out just wasn't enough. There just wasn't any real respect given or sense of authority I felt amongst the majority of them. I'd be willing to say some of it was from my own lack of experience, but the biggest issue is that the kids just don't care, and neither do their parents. What good is a referral if their parents won't punish them for it anyway? What good is a failing grade when the parent doesn't care to take notice?

    Honestly, it really isn't worth it in the current system. No amount of passion can overcome it.
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  12. GatorFanCF
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    Went to the library yesterday and had a woman approach me about signing a petition to have her sister on the Seminole County School Board ballot. She claimed she and her sister have been in the education system 25+ years each.

    I asked her one question: "What is the biggest challenge to properly educating our children?"
    She began her answer with "we need to get the parents involved...." and I stopped her right then and signed her petition.
    The sad truth is that there are a lot of father & mothers who are not parents. I've never been a formal educator, think public unions are a scourge on society AND believe that we are kidding ourselves when we ask teachers to make chicken salad out of...an unprepared and undersupported product.

    Bottom line: we have our children anywhere from 4-6 years BEFORE formal education ever begins - what we do (or do not do) with them during that time probably has more to do with their ability to function in society than anything else. I am GatorFanCF and I approve this message.
  13. gator421
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    I believe it's been proven that most people are pretty much shaped by the time they enter school. I honestly don't know how teachers get as much accomplished as they do.
  14. TJtheGator
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  15. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    And there is the biggest difference between public and private.
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  16. shelbygt350
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    shelbygt350 Well-Known Member

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    I was sent a photo of my 8th grade class by a friend. There were 43 kids. 22 girls. 21 boys. One teacher, a nun who had total control over the class.

    There were no sexual assaults. No girls getting pregnant. No STDs. No drugs. No guns. No self esteem enhancement.

    Only education and some harassment of a dork who ended up A-ok in high school.

    Yet the people who run the education systems (Federal, State and local) along with culture/society think that they know better today then how it was done decades ago.
  17. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    The statistics say that about 2/3rds of a student's achievement is tied to things outside of the school. Of the remaining 1/3, about 2/3rds is peer effects, the people from outside the school who are also inside the school. Of that remaining portion, teachers are a small piece, in total about 3% of a student's achievement can be shown to be the result of the teacher, and a large part of that influence is related to things that are difficult to measure, like personality and caring.
  18. QGator2414
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    No. It is removing beauracratic paperwork and allowing them the ability to create an educational envirinment in their classroom necessary to teach (removing kids that cannot behave without the beauracracy).

    We spend more on education than ever and it has done what?
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  19. QGator2414
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    Well put.
  20. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    This!

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