Taser Death of Graffiti Artist Israel Hernandez-Llach Revives Debate

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator996, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Exactly. Ask anyone who has stepped out of line in New Orleans during Mardi Gras. Thump city.
  2. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Yes that's true....

    You can also slip on a bar of soap and die also....so I guess there's a risk inherent in using a shower? :grin:


    There's a legit concern about how deadly these devices are & how well trained the police are in using them.
  3. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    So they all have it coming to them?
  4. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    You're in favor of this?
  5. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Slip on a bar of soap? Grasping.

    Given the, as you put it, inherent risks of breaking the law, why put yourself at risk of being tased, get worked over by cops or being thrown in jail and getting worked over by your fellow inmates?

    Bad stuff can happen when you break the law and find yourself being pursued and captured by the law. My advice is to avoid that situation all together and paint a canvas or so skateboards. One might live more happily that way. Just a radical thought here.
  6. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Is there an anti-tizzy device that can be humanely used on threads like this one ?
    • Like Like x 1
  7. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    The ones I have seen definitely did but why would you make that assumption anyway? Again, some simple rules. No fighting, no pissing in public, no glass containers on the street and do what a cop tells you to do. Me? I had a blast and had NO trouble.
  8. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    So, all police action is justified in your mind?

    All suspected of criminal wrongdoing should know better because the cop will kick your ass?

    And are justified in doing so?

    Sorry to shake up your little world but...
    Some people listen to cops and end up dead....that happens to.
  9. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Never said that all cops are justified in their actions. I know plenty of cops, judges, prosecutors and defense lawyers. I know there are dishonest cops out there. Trust me on this.

    You are getting away from the point. The guy increased his chances for bad things to happen when he made numerous bad decisions. Pure and simple. So, yes, it would seem if you face a harsh consequence to a potential action, you might want to avoid that. Do you go around putting you hand on a hot stove?

    BTW, make no assumptions about the world I live in.
  10. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    which is odd since the idea is u taze them and they immediately lose control, falling to the ground, tackling or pushing someone to the ground does the exact thing, so possible closed head injury seems equally likely.

    as to race here in this case, non factor and nonissue, a hispanic in miami is a strong majority

    the witnesses and the popo stories don't jibe. do the popo always tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you decide but as for me, no they don't. i can certainly see them high fiving after tazing a young man for a nonviolent offense
  11. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Again, you guys are arguing as if someone is condoning his actions....

    No one is....


    It also doesn't give the police the free reign to do whatever they want


    Too bad, in some communities isn't a responsible answer....
  12. scamgtr
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    scamgtr VIP Member

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    What would have been the easiest way for this situation to have been resolved without violence or loss of life?

    Who had the power to end the chase numerous times?

    Who refused to do so after being cornered?

    It seems to me if the artist would have just let himself be arrested we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    He has "unclean hands" and was the person who set in motion the events that led to his own unfortunate demise. It was unfortunate that he could not withstand being taken down with a tazer, but to say the LEOs got it all wrong here just isn't intellectually honest about what happened.
  13. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    All suspects can end any arrest by submitting to the police....

    What's new in that line of thinking?


    There have been appeals to study the lethal nature of tazing...

    The Miami PD does not have a good record when it comes to using excessive force

    Saying otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.
  14. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    So our options are shoot him with a live round, taze him, continue chasing him and try and tackle him, or let him go. Am I missing any?
  15. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Yes, you are...


    The cops knew who the kid was....they had warned & arrested him before.

    They could have went to his house and arrested him.
  16. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    this is beyond stupid. maybe if tagging brings you such ire that it is punishable by death go get some paint and start a movement to erase it all from your neighborhood. but that takes a little effort on your part, probably easier to just call for open season on all of them.
  17. MichiGator2002
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    Your position is that rather than arrest him then and there for the crimes, and the additional charge of resisting, they should have had to go get a judge to issue an arrest warrant to arrest him in his home? And just sort of hope he isn't off ruining other people's property in the meantime?
  18. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    I'm no lawyer, but I think it would be a much tougher case to prove after the fact, as opposed to apprehending him in the act.
  19. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Might be true...

    His tagging identified him and the chase would be evidence also...

    His past history of tagging was known also...


    Police arrest people at places other than the scene of the crime all the time
  20. scamgtr
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    scamgtr VIP Member

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    Excessive force is the way you have tried to cagily frame the issue.

    Miami PD's previous track record may or may not have any bearing on this case. Trotting out previous cases may or may not be relevant.

    The suspect's own actions raised the level of force necessary to apprehend him. Using the tazer would not have been necessary had the suspect not ran straight at the LEOs. What alternative did the LEOs have when the suspect charged in their direction? Please tell me what these men should have done in the heat of the moment without knowing the suspect's intent? Not in 20/20 hindsight.

    Place yourself in the LEO's shoes for a moment. You have a suspect running towards you that has not obeyed any lawful commands, is eluding you for no readily apparent reason other than to avoid capture (which can be used to infer guilt), and this subject is running towards you. Its in the dark. Maybe you are capable of forming a coherent thought under this type of pressure and you know that you have to protect yourself so that you don't get hurt or that you see your family again. Maybe in your brain you recognize a survival instinct and you do what you have to do to keep yourself safe. Maybe that is drawing a tazer and taking the suspect down; maybe you are aware that some people die from a tazer, but you are aware that more people die from guns, maybe you are just grabbing for whatever thing you can as the distance closes between you and the person galloping toward you. Maybe you just react.

    Who knows what anyone would be thinking under those circumstances; but obviously, you have, so, kudos to you.

    It is so fashionable to bash LEOs; and I have done my share at dressing them down on these boards when they do something stupid like the arrest of Antonio Morrison and Purifoy; but in a situation like the facts you have presented, I think most people would have done the same thing because most humans possess a survival instinct. That is not to say that LEOs always get a free pass, but to hold them to some superhuman standard is patently unfair. You have railed about this case, but I haven't seen you say what the LEO should have done in the alternative; which really seems to tell me everything I need to know about your agenda.

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