Taser Death of Graffiti Artist Israel Hernandez-Llach Revives Debate

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator996, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Well that shows your true colors huh?


    Stop and Frisk is a issue for all Americans...not just a "black story"

    SYG is a issue for all Americans...not just a "black story"


    How is posting these stories "games"??? :huh:
  2. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Missing in the story and this thread is the simple fact that his "cool factor" was greatly enhanced with respect to his "fanbase" by the simple fact that what he did was criminal. That's why he continued to do it. Not because he couldn't afford to go to the art institute or take some graphic design classes at MDCC. In other words, being a rebel was his hook. Tragically, it did not serve him well in this case (Though it surely will give him some serious posthumous street cred).
  3. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Given his level of success, notoriety and bright future as an artist, it was even more senseless for him to do what he was doing. He may have been artistically talented but he was completely lacking in commonsense. He caused this tragedy himself.
  4. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Agreed.

    When keeping it real goes wrong.
  5. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Take away his Robin-Hood-with-spraypaint routine and I doubt he's as acclaimed. In terms of self-promotion, it's a good stunt. Not so much if one is looking to avoid physical encounters with Police.

    And, again with the spin. As if the property owners who he's blessing with his "artwork" are a bunch of mean-ole bad guys. What a bunch of nonsense.
  6. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    Man, you are so far out of line it is not funny. Doesn't matter though I am done with you.

    By the way how many times have you started a thread to do with something bad happening to white people?
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I usually refer to graffiti artists by the more historical and precise term of "vandal", but that's neither here nor there. Just roll my eyes at the stupidity of having socially thrown in the towel that we deem people violating the property of others as either "art", "okay", or both.

    But obviously he didn't deserve to die. But nobody intended he die, either. Tasers are considered non-lethal force. I don't actually like tasers, I think the bobblehead in the article is correct that they have pretty immediately become a weapon of first resort -- that instead of using them as gun substitutes, too many police are using them as word substitutes and patience substitutes and discretion substitutes. But they aren't used as means of intentionally executing vandals, which 996 seems to be implying.
  8. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Not even that.

    Marketing 101.

    Without the graffiti angle, IMO, he's just another artist paying the bills with another job.
  9. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Exactly, I believe guns are far more efficient in executing vandals than tasters. There is a fair amount of data to back that one up.
  10. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    I stated this a few days ago in another thread, but I used to work in this industry and these weapons have been referred to as "less-lethal" for a long time. We weren't allowed to call them "non-lethal" for reasons like this. With rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, tear gas, pepper spray, and tasers we were trained to use them in a certain way to minimize the chance of lethal force. (ex bean bag round to thru the eye socket)

    Usually I side with the common citizenry in cases where police use excessive or unnecessary force. This case seems like neither, and just bad luck for the criminal.
  11. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Where did you come up with that's what I'm implying???


    The story is about excessive police violence, how Tazers were marketed, and how lazy police officers are going for their Tazer first....maybe because they were told they were non-lethal.


    Some on this thread have decided to bash the victim to justify tazing him to death...
    Others have questioned his work as an artist...to which they're wrong...

    You seem to agree with the article but somehow think I'm implying that authorities use this to intentionally execute?


    What did I post that would make that assumption even possible?
  12. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    You are being incredibly obtuse and dismissive of the circumstances that this guy put himself in.
  13. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Do you know the details of his death?
  14. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    My post probably got lost on the bottom of the last page, but tasers are not marketed as non-lethal and police officers are not trained to use them as a non-lethal force. I used to train the officers myself....
  15. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Because you used the phrase "street artist", which pretty much does all the work for you.

    Well, people are justifying tasing him. You seem to be failing to connect that lazy or not, impatient or not, tasing him was not something done with the intention that it kill him or even permanently harm him. It does happen, and happening more than never is a terrible thing, but it not considered a use of lethal force.

    At most, the police might be guilty of a criminally negligent homicide, but ultimately, even that won't hold up under the facts. Even a civil negligence claim probably wouldn't. I don't think its frequent enough that tasers kill people that it would be reasonably foreseeable, nor do I think a jury would agree that using the taser breached a duty owed to the guy.

    Yet you are trying to trump this up like they got him on his knees and put one in the back of his skull in punishment for his vandalism.
  16. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Do you? Were you there by chance?
  17. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    It said "burgeoning artist" and "street art" like grafiti is a legitimate medium, at least as far as much of the art world is concerned. It is also technically a crime too, with all the inherent risks, which usually are arrest and fines, rather than death.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_street_artists
  18. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    The goal was to arrest and fine, not to kill. Which is why they used taser and not pistol. Again, nobody has to convince me to disapprove of the police turning tasers into a crutch, that they are abused, that too many will turn to the taser in lieu of just basic patience and decency... but that doesn't change the fact that even the worst of taser-abusers doesn't pull out the taser and use it with a reasonable belief, let alone the intention, that it will kill.
  19. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    Yes.
    Gonna move the target now?
  20. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    I'm trumping this up?

    I posted the article...you guys have claimed all sorts of issues neither I nor the article raised....


    Who's trumping up what?

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