Tactical Situation Discussion: Zimmerman Case

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by The_Graygator, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. mastoidbone
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    mastoidbone VIP Member

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    Given NO ONE was in any danger----he had no reason to leave car with a gun and intent to use if needed.


    I rarely carry bit have had training.

    I also am comfortable with grounding it out and highly recommend anyone who wants to avoid problems to take serious jiu jitsu with PLENTY of painful sparing....this allows you to have options besides lethal force.

    IMO---if you are going to carry and the lethal consequences----you should be prepared to use non-lethal options as well.
  2. Speedofsand
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    Speedofsand New Member

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    Believe it or not, I once heard a victim who was severely beaten say the last thing he remembered was his attacker asked for a cigarette.

    Bottom line: be aware and protect your space.


    ONE shot. One wild shot in the dark, while on your back fighting/wrestling, and you know the police are arriving any second.
    Wouldn't GZ have fired more than ONE shot if he meant to kill? A 9mm wild shot in the dark usually will not instantly kill a person. This round just hit the wrong place for tragedy to be avoided.
    I thought the defense could have spun that single shot better. Maybe they saved it for Fed & Civil court? :)
  3. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    That cuts both ways.
  4. reformedgator
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    reformedgator VIP Member Premium Member

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    Have you ever experienced someone straddling you & pounding your head into the concrete? Neither have I but before I became unconsciousness, the thought of pulling out my weapon would probably cross my mind.
  5. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Yep, and as for meyerisback, he's filter bait now. he made a fool out of himself trying to flame-bait anyway because it was so playground, so I filtered him and moved on. I'm just not going to waste my time repeatedly engaging someone who's sole intent is to create conflict.

    As for what you said above, I agree totally. My story was to show that knowing your surroundings and making sure you can accurately assess a situation quickly is the best way to go. I did not create the situation I described, these kids did, but with a little experience it didn't turn out bad.

    Regardless, my small town is heavily black and extremely, extremely divided racially, and it is not uncommon to see confrontations between whites and blacks at least once or twice a month here. It's sad, but almost all of them are provoked by blacks, and poverty, poor educations, and a lack of good parenting at home are the main reasons for it.

    As for Zimmerman, Martin had gotten home and could have gone inside and the entire situation could have been avoided, but he decided to go back and provoke a confrontation with Zimmerman by sucker-punching him, and he got shot for it.

    Once again though, my main fault with Zimmerman is allowing himself to let Martin create that situation. It's not Zimmerman's fault that he defended himself, but it's partly his fault for taking eyes off his surroundings.
  6. FlyingGatorII
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    FlyingGatorII Premium Member

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    "
    My main fault with Zimmerman is allowing Trayvon to invade his safety zone (mine is six feet), and committing the most cardinal sin of obviously taking his eyes off of him to allow him to sucker punch him. When you are carrying a firearm and you have room to, you back up some when someone enters your safety zone and try to diffuse the situation by demonstrating a non-threatening posture.

    Usually, you take a couple of steps back to keep a good field of view of your opponent and keep them out of arm's reach. Holding your hands up, elbows bent, palms forward and stating you want no trouble can help a lot is pacifying an aggressor. Your arms up in this manner can also help you counter a lot of possible punches if necessary.

    if they continue to threaten you, you reach back and place your hand on your weapon, do not draw it, turn the non-holster side of your body towards your aggressor and keep you free arm up to protect yourself with and keep them from getting to your gun, and in this situation you also tell them "I am armed, please stand down and back away".

    I guess we all know what happens when the aggressor continues to threaten you"

    Good stuff Gray. My only question is what would have happened if Zimmerman had done this, Trayvon attacked, and Zimmerman shot him dead before any physical contact was made? It seems clear to me that the physical evidence of the assault is what gave Zimmerman a not guilty verdict. Had he shot him the way you describe I think he would have been convicted by this kangaroo court. Where am I wrong? For some posters here the fact that he didn't allow Trayvon to beat hm to death made him guilty. I agree with you in principal but if this trial showed us anything it was anyone not black shooting a black will be sacrificed in the name of racial disharmony by the race baiters in this world.
  7. rounds
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    rounds New Member

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    How do you protect your home while you're at the swamp or otherwise out of town?
  8. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    I would say that getting cheap-shot punched in the nose hard enough to break it and render one pretty much helpless and then getting the crap beat out of you while you can't even defend yourself is definitely being "in danger".

    It's amazing how so many here keep conveniently omitting that Martian physically attacked George Zimmerman and was beating the man's head into the sidewalk.
  9. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Something tells me the stand your ground law would have then been used. You actually don't have to even be touched by someone threatening you to shoot them if you honestly believe your life in is peril.

    That said, if the aggressor had not touched you, your only reason to pull your firearm would be if he is wielding a weapon of some sort like a gun, knife, bat, etc.

    If you shoot someone just because they're threatening you and you have plenty of room to back away and clear the threat area, then I would definitely re-consider a manslaughter charge, but that would be up to the jury to decide I suppose.
  10. SmootyGator
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    SmootyGator Well-Known Member

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    This is one of the problems with self defense / SYG that I actually have a problem with. If someone pulls a gun on you and they say "I'm going to kill you", and then you pull out your gun and shoot them, it's a lot less clear-cut than the GZ/TM case. Then it will truly be your word against a dead persons, i.e., you won't have any physical evidence to prove you were threatened (except for maybe the assailant's gun being present).

    That being said, if someone pulls out a gun and threatens me like that and I'm carrying, I won't be contemplating the intricacies of the law. It will pretty much be me pulling my gun and hoping I'm quick.
  11. rounds
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    rounds New Member

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    I ask because open carrying in your driveway seems a bit problematic.
  12. mastoidbone
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    mastoidbone VIP Member

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    No one was in any danger until GZ left the car---if you are packing lethal force I would not engage anyone unless life or injury imminent.

    Therefore---he should have NEVER left the car with lethal force a possibility unless he saw someone in danger.

    Period.
  13. jimgata
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    jimgata Premium Member

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    No one was in any danger until Trayvon hit Zimmerman and was giving him "whoop ass". The danger was to Zimmerman at that time and the danger moved to Martin when he was shot.
    If Zimmerman thought Martin was acting suspicious, why would he not also think he could be dangerous? How would he know how young Martin was, who was wearing a "hoodie" You barely can see the face much less determine age. If he was small you might expect him to be young, but Trayvon was not small, in fact he was taller than Zimmerman.
  14. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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  15. rounds
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    rounds New Member

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  16. MeyerIsBack
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    MeyerIsBack Premium Member

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    I am having a hard time finding what I said. I mean, I did say 'does your gun protect you from polite kids?' But I think that is a fair question given your bizarre story. After you called me the liberal media, I clarified that 'warded' was used in proper context. Then you called me some more names, then you turned me into 'filter bait'. Your reaction to me is almost as bizarre as your reaction to those kids.
  17. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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  18. Clyde_
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    Clyde_ New Member

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    Blake
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  19. Charles_
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    Charles_ New Member

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    Blake gonna blake.
  20. reformedgator
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    reformedgator VIP Member Premium Member

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    Let me ask you. What if you are clearly displaying your weapon & have no where to retreat. Due to age, size, gender etc. it's evident that if the aggressor could get into your space the outcome could be bad. Also assuming he has no weapon other than his fists, feet.etc.

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