Stand your ground laws: A license to kill?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by leogator, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Martin is supposed to run also. When he was beating a head on concrete, he now was in the wrong, and it cost him his life.

    Do any of you really think Z could out run Martin.
  2. bludigal
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    bludigal New Member

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    If I don't pick the fight or start it should I be restricted to my fists out of some societal norm?

    I was raised don't start fights, just inish them, use whatever it takes to win?
  3. OB1
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    OB1 Active Member

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    There have been cases where someone punched another in the head just once and caused severe injuries and even death.

    To those that want to start fights with others, be careful you may be looking for a fist fight and get a gun fight in return. As a CWP holder, I don't look for trouble, don't start fights, but if put in a position where I have to use a weapon to protect myself or my family, I would without hesitation.

    Unfortunately there are some people that think it's fun to go out and start a fight and kick someone's butt, they get a thrill out of it. Hopefully they really think about their actions, they may get unlucky and pick the wrong person and end up dead. No one should have to get beat until they are permanently disabled or disfigured to justify defending them self. Zimmerman's injuries were substantial enough for you to know he was loosing the fight, one more punch landing in just the right place could have killed him.

    It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
  4. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Well-Known Member

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    Legal version of "stalking" or whatever suits the purpose of the offended party? Is a racist view by the offended party required or optional?

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  5. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Can someone provide an example...a real example not hypothetical, of a case where someone started a fight, let it escalate, all in the the hope that they could then kill the person and claim syg? I ask because I have seen that as an argument against syg. A return to the old west.

    Can someone provide a link showing it is mostly criminals using syg..and that they are using it to cover their murders...not using it as self defense?

    Can someone...who has actually read the law and not just read internet blogs or opinion pieces please explain to me why I should have to turn and flee when being threatened? Why I shouldn't be allowed to defend myself?

    Don't want to get shot? Don't start crap.
  6. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    Just make sure that you have a jury of 6 women and that you were in the NW program. Because what they thought reasonable fear for your life might not be the same for an different jury. Also make sure that you kill your opponent(s) so that you eliminate a witness(es). Whatever you do, do not try to defuse the situation since this law does not require you to. I mean why waste your time when you can shoot first and then claim that you felt threatened?
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I can't think of many jury makeups that, following the instructions, would have considered it unreasonable to fear death or serious bodily injury once pinned down and defenseless from unguarded shots and concrete behind the head. Even 12 Army Rangers would be ignoring their role to apply the fear reasonable to an Army Ranger, for instance.
  8. reformedgator
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    reformedgator Premium Member

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    And all that after been knocked to the ground by a punch in the nose & having your head pounded into the cement. Maybe you're able to go thru that whole thought process while getting pounded but I'm fairly sure most of us can't.
  9. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    Have you ever been in a fight?
  10. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    Ever been in a fight?
  11. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    So..no you can't
    And really all you want to do is continue to.complain about the zimmerman trial which had nothing to do with SYG.
    But hey...stick with the msm talking points. Point out the fact that TM was 12 while you are at it.

    And again...no links. Cant back up the claims with an actual real life example.
  12. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    There's isn't one. The problem is the key word "reasonable". What's reasonable to you is not reasonable to me. What might be reasonable to you might not be reasonable to a jury. A jury of 6 or 12 engineers will possibly not come up with the same verdict as a jury of Iraq war veterans. Until there's a lot of case law and there isn't so far, each case is unique and the jury verdicts might differ on fairly similar facts.
  13. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    If I'm pinned down on concrete getting punched in the head repeated, I'm fearing death or great bodily harm. And if there is even any indication of a kick towards the head while I'm on the ground, no matter what surface it's on, I'm scared for my life.

    Ever looked at head injuries? It doesn't take a tremendous amount of force, particularly on a defenseless person, to inflict head trauma that is potentially life threatening.
  14. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Yes. So what?
  15. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    The "reasonable fear" part isn't anything to do with Stand Your Ground, or even new. That's the standard for justifiable use of force pretty much everywhere and has been for pretty much as long as self-defense has been a legal justification.

    When you have to consider what someone in those circumstances, facing those respective physical abilities, would have thought, I would love to hear some postulation as to how you could be more exact than "I know it when I see it."

    (And it isn't like a "reasonable person" standard is unique to self-defense, you'll see "reasonable person," "reasonably forseeable," reasonable all sorts of things, pop up across the legal spectrum as one of the determinative inquiries.)
  16. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Many deaths are one-punch homicides, resulting from the initial blow causing the decedent to fall and strike his head on pavement or curb.

    Doesn't take all that much.
  17. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Reasonable...as has been pointed out is not the problem. The problem is that you do not like the outcome of the Zimmerman trial and are attacking a law that had NOTHING to do with that trial to justify your feelings.

    The reason their are no examples for what I asked is because by and far SYG is a good law and is working as inteded. Are their those that would pervert it? Sure. As there is with any law.

    If you do not agree with the zimmerman verdict jump on one of the many threads started about it. SYG was not used in that trial, was not a defense and had no bearing on the outcome.

    If you do not lime SYG try explaining why using facts, links, real life examples. Nit zimmerman, hypotheticals that have never happened, and lmsm talming points and opions.
  18. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    I did not start bringing Zimmerman in it. I brought up the fact that ever since the SYG was voted in there has been a marked increase in the number of justifiable homicides in Florida while the number of homicides has not gone up in a similar fashion. Some of us went, " Hmmmm..... does that mean that the law has encouraged reckless behavior like shoot first and then claim self defense or SYG?"
  19. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    So that wasn't you referring to the zimmerman trial?
  20. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Again. Give an example where someone shot first and then claimed syg as there defense. No warnings. No threat of life endangerment. No violence acted upon them. Just went wild wild west and shot someone.

    Besides I am pretty sure that justifiable means the act was justified.

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