Something not to lose sight of going into the 2014

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by SavageGator, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. cistern
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    cistern Active Member

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    Tebowism:

    I'm sorry that you think you're God and infallible, but in several instances you said "I think that..." and my disagreement was with those thoughts. Last I checked, thoughts were not facts.

    Not sure if you just don't like a woman disagreeing with you or you just like differing opinions but it's not very becoming either way.
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  2. MyakkaGator
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    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

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    The disagree button so for weaklings and nole trolls.
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  3. slayerxing
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    slayerxing Premium Member

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    I don't know about tebowism, but I get nervous when women actually start agreeing with me... :p
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  4. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought. He looks much stockier in the pic. Vh3
  5. Tebowism0823
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    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

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    I wouldn't say God but I'd settle for Ron Burgundy ish ;)

    Normally you're one of the hesitant posters I like feedback from so you only disagreeing with it caught me off guard. My pathetic comment was directed toward the practice of drive by rating not you personally; should've been more clear.

    FTR, I have no issue with a woman disagreeing with me. My wife does it all the time.
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  6. Tebowism0823
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    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

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    I'm with ya on that
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  7. HotlantaGator
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    HotlantaGator Well-Known Member

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    I know Pease is just so much axle grease now, he got thrown under the bus a long time ago, I just don't blame any coach that much for 2013, not even Pease.

    Pease may not be a good coach, Pease and the OL coach may not have worked well together, but the offensive personnel situation was a trainwreck from mid-September on.

    I thought the offensive coaches handled the Driskel injury pretty well, they adjusted the game plan and had some success with Tyler Murphy. But once he went down, it was over, with our schedule no coach could have done a lot with what ran onto the field at offense for UF, not Kevin Sumlin, not Steve Spurrier.

    I am obviously someone who believes its primarily about the Jessie's and Joe's, not the Xs and Os, and once Jessie and Joe went down the Xs and Os were sort of irrelevant.
  8. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Good points. And Pease seems like a really good guy - I've certainly got nothing against him.

    But I know for a fact both personnel and coaching matter. We certainly had a cluster function personnel wise on offense last year and that explains a lot. But even early in the year, we were inexcusably horrendous in the red zone and wrt TOs. There is no way we should have lost to Miami.

    And even against GA Southern there was no excuse for that level of inepttude, injuries or not. We had talent on the field. We just weren't ready to play (offense or defense to be fair). Heck, Morninwheg looked lke a QB in the O&B game. Who would have thought that based on last year?

    The rest of the losses I understand based on the injury impacts, but those two were really bad.

    But it's a new day. Go Roper. Go Summers. Go Gators!
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  9. cistern
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    cistern Active Member

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    Lol, sorry I didn't mean to snap at you. I just didn't feel like typing posts on the phone and sometimes just leave ratings as I read instead. I try to keep my posting from being over the top negative or positive as well, so sometimes agree/disagree instead of reposting the same stuff.
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  10. number1
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    number1 Well-Known Member

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    Just make sure you add some great seasoning, us Louisiana folks like our food spicy. lol
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  11. Tebowism0823
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    Louisiana? That explains it :)
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  12. 08gatorbait
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    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

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    I said at the program. Your opinion of them doesn't change anything, they won a title, and that was who was on the list. The last ten coaches to win a national title in college football. There was like a two page convo on this maybe I didn't include it on that long ramble, but it doesn't change any facts. 3 years = how long it took NINE of the last TEN national title winning coaches to win their first title with said program. I don't care that it's his first head coaching job, it's just a fact. Claiming this stat means nothing isnt fair, because it's to big of a sample margin to mean nothing. You made this long argument...and didn't read the conversation where I made it clear what exactly what was meant and for that I apologize.

    Zook and Muschamp. It's a pretty fair comparison. I love Foley, him making a mistake or two is fine with me he's done enough to earn the right to make them. Muschamp hasn't done anything to earn a pass on 4-8, players giving up on him, losing to a FCS team, losing to Vandy at home, losing to Georgia three straight times. None of that is "acceptable". He did have a good 11-2 year, in which he lost a BCS game. That's expected at a school tied for most BCS wins. He is paid to win at UF, not once in awhile, but yearly. You can have down years of course, but not 4-8. That's not a down year, that's the titanic sinking.

    Agreed, we all have our opinion, and if he does succeed, I'll be very happy to eat crow. I just don't feel he will.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
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  13. Tebowism0823
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    I apologIze if I read it wrong but you said everyone but 1 won a title in their first 3 years. There was actually two and then the rest I said. Head coaching experience plays a big factor in it and I believe being the coordinator there as well helps the transition. Either way, I agree that the jury is out. I hope he succeeds.
  14. 08gatorbait
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    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

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    Muschamp walked into one of the greatest defensive classes ever in terms of potential from 2010. He still had a ton of play makers from the Meyer era. He walked into a situation just like Meyer did. Talent, needed to fill some pieces, and you have a title contender. The difference is Meyer continued his third year and still went to a capital one bowl after losing most of the Zook players and had a Heisman winner. Then won a national title yet again. Muschamp lost Meyer's upper class, and went 4-8. None of those coaches on that list came into a situation you would consider insanely better than Muschamp's. We act like Meyer left us high and dry, and that's just not true. We had issues, but they weren't anything any of the title winning coaches didn't have when they walked in.

    I'm too much of a homer to write a season off...well besides the Magic this year I accepted that day one.
  15. 08gatorbait
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    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

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    Yea I meant at the school he was coaching at, just didn't fully explain because we had like two pages didn't want to keep repeating it lol.
  16. Tebowism0823
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    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

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    Both agreeing Muschamp has a ways to go, do you not give any importance to a HC having previous experience in regards to being able to handle certain things better?
  17. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    Well stats don't lie. Meyers 2010 offense dropped to 86th total offense from top 15 the year before in Tebow's last year. That was the biggest drop off for us in the last 10+ years. If he was still loaded with offensive talent someone forgot to tell meyer. Cause I'm sure he didn't forget how to coach,, he just didn't recruit OFFENSIVELY very well towards the end. He rode out the eligibility of his great '06 and '07 classes and then bounced to OSU. I agree he had a stellar '10 class but it was extremely defensive heavy. Lacked any good o lineman and didn't have many elite skill position players. But it can't be argued that champ made good on the defensive gift meyer left him, he's churned out great defensive units since he's been here. But if a offensive guru like Meyer drops more than 70 offensive spots to 86th in nation with the same guys he left for champ, what did you think would happen when the next guy comes in with a offense not suited for the mediocre offensive players we already had?
    Make no mistake about it meyer was a great offensive coach (though I would add I think alot of the umph left when mullen did.) But meyer couldn't coach a lack if defense. He was lucky to have had a great dc in strong. With out coach Strongs defense we don't win either title cause no way we hold that record setting Oklahoma team to 14 points with out him. We Could Argue that Meyer Wouldn't be as great had he not came into a situation where we had a great DC who had been here for years and had recruiting bonds in the area already established.

    Champ can't coach a lick of offense, he like Meyer will need the help of a great coordinator to shore up that side of the ball. He just didn't have a proven coordinator already in place like strong was for meyer.
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  18. gatorcity
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    I think that's pretty obvious by now. Muschamp has exposed himself as a guy who knows very little about offense, and not just because of his failed philosophy.

    I'm mainly talking about the the quality of play (i.e. basic fundamentals) we've seen at each and every position on the offense under his tenure. Yeah that's what you have position coaches for right? To teach the fundamentals? Ok maybe you made a couple of mistakes on hiring your offensive staff who are supposed to do that work for you (or your WR coach bolts before the season starts), but that stuff happens. A good head coach should be able to coach every single position. With our offensive line struggling as bad as it was for as long as it was I would expect the head coach to get in there and start teaching technique to that position group in practice until they get it right. Same with QBs, WRs, etc. Obviously he can't or won't do this for whatever reason.

    Same thing with play-design and play-calling. It's left a lot to be desired. Would love to see the head coach take more control over those things when its going so poorly. Again maybe he did, but the results were awful, so its another "either unwilling or unable" type situation.

    On the same note, he has not been a wizard when it comes to offensive recruiting either. The big fish seem to recognize his lack of offensive acumen because we sure are missing out on some must-have recruits, even ones we already had committed at one point. I'm not even sure he has an eye for recruiting his staff. Did he really think after being with Pease/Davis every day for over a year that they were going to excel in 2013 and that they were the right guys going forward? A good head coach has to recognize these things before they blow up.

    Everything offense for us these 3 years has been an utter failure - recruiting, development, scheme, staff hires, and of course results. You don't go 3 years straight of 100+ offense at UF if you know what you are doing.

    Do you think we got that TE from Virginia via WM or Roper?

    At least I would expect WM to be running a strong Defense. I'm not sure what it was that Chizik was doing at Auburn, but I see your comparison. If we start lighting up scoreboards I think we'll all know who is responsible. We just better hope if that happens that Roper sticks around for a while because if he leaves we might be in trouble again.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
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  19. OaktownGator
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    Head Coach is responsible for hiring the right guys to get things done... not for doing it all themselves.

    No doubt Muschamp has made mistakes with his offensive coaching hires, but they were mistakes that many people thought were good decisions at the time he first made them... it's not like he made obviously bone headed decisions. Although I can understand questioning the Pease decision as he really only had the one good year at Boise where everything was already in place for him to do well.

    As far as recruiting goes, the last two classes appear to have been very good. We'll have to see how that plays out this year and beyond, but at this point, I think it is inaccurate to say he has recruited poorly on offense the last two years.

    His first full class was weak on offense. Especially problematic in not adequately shoring up the wasteland left to him at OL and WR.

    He has also had some extraordinarily bad luck... both of the top two TEs in the 2012 class having health problems and not contributing a lick. Dunker getting dismissed. Probably the worst plague of injuries that I've ever seen hit a team, last season.

    Finally, it is wholly inaccurate to describe Muschamp's offensive philosophy as failed. His philosophy is very similar to Saban's and to many coaches who have been traditionally very successful in terms of winning. Including our first dominant teams built by Pell and led by Hall.

    Now, it may not be something that Gator fans are willing to embrace since the SOS days, but it is something we were all quite happy with in the Pell/Hall days. Personnel, coaching and execution just weren't acceptable the last few years. It wasn't a philosophy problem. Give Muschamp Galen Hall, the Great Wall, Kerwin, that great set of backs, etc, and his philosophy would look great and probably would have won us a national championship in 2012.
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  20. GCNumber7
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    I do remember a lot of people outside gator fans questioning the Weis hire. Not to say Weis wasn't highly thought of as a coordinator, but more in terms of chemistry. But to me public opinion on the hires is pretty much irrelevant. Muschamp should understand his plan to win and his staff better than any outsider, and should hire accordingly.

    Also, the fact that personal issues between the coaches apparently caused major problems for us reeks of poor leadership at the top. Top executives are not only accountable for hiring the right team but also creating an environment where the team will perform at its best, which includes resolving any conflicts. When you have a bunch of Type A personalities, conflicts will happen.

    At the end of the day, Muschamp is responsible and accountable for his hires and how his team performs. We have always known his OC hires were crucial to his success, and so far he is 0-2.
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