Solutions to better race relations...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator34654, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    29,640
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +3,519
    Got me, but don't look for things to never change for the better and only get worse if the family unit is not improved. Without basic structure to life and semblance of order there is nothing. Pretty basic stuff
  2. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +962
    Dude, you are so much better than these types of responses. It has taken me only 3 pages to see that this thread is quite illustrative of the problem. No matter which side you vote for, this issue is bigger than Jesse and Al (though I agree they are cynical SOB's who use the issue for personal gain more than anything else), Bush and Obama, (R)s and (D)s.

    Here's a fact: This nation has NEVER had a real and honest discussion about the topic. It has become imprisoned in politics which leads to. . . well, the kind of mindless name-calling and finger pointing we see on this thread.

    This whole Zimmerman thing is a clear example of those types using the issue for nothing but personal gain and the extraction of political capital. The evidence in this case is clear on one point, IMO, and that is that race had nothing to do with this shooting. GZ is Hispanic and mixed and I'm sure was the target of racist comments and attitudes in his lifetime. Like the spate of crime in the neighborhood (the source of his suspicions, not TM's skin color) it is always left out of the story by those to whom such facts are inconvenient to the cause.

    Another major hindrance is the combination of white-fear and black-outrage that fuels this horrible lack of honest discussion.

    I saw this thread and thought, maybe I might find one here. No such luck. And really sad to see someone of your intelligence engaging in this kind of non-productive golden shower-fest.
  3. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +962
    So, genius, what's your solution (all these posts on this thread and not a ONE that even begins to step down that path)? More welfare? Higher taxes?

    Seriously. Do you have anything resembling an original thought on the topic or just the usual talking points?
  4. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +962
    Or how about whites who dress in overalls, wear rebel flag hats, throw the "n-word" around like "and", talk in thick, thick redneck (not to be confused with southern) accents. Ain't hiring them either.

    Same thing.

    Problem is, our current society in many ways has taken the worst of black culture (street, thug, whatever you want to label it) and held it on high as something to be admired. Worse yet, the usual suspects will label you a racist if you dare to have an issue with it.
  5. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +962

    So how is it white folks fault for the absence of the family unit in African American society. I think you hit on a key point here, but what is the solution?

    IMO, this President had a chance to make a real difference (starting with clipping the wings of the Als, Jesse's and even NAACP) but instead he chooses to pander. That's the saddest thing about his term if you ask me.
  6. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    29,640
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +3,519
    You're exactly right, Obama is certainly a role model but yet he fails miserably in that regard in terms of speaking out. The Al's and Jesse's are absolute poison to the black community.
  7. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,437
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +433
    Well said!
  8. scamgtr
    Offline

    scamgtr Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Stuart, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +144
    If it were simply an issue of being a minority (e.g., simple racism), then most minorities would face similar issues (e.g., Asian-Americans and Hispanic Americans would have similar problems to African Americans). However, that is not the case. An earlier poster referred to it as a cultural issue and I tend to agree. It is a cultural issue related to not wanting to conform to generally accepted societal norms. This runs across races, but it seems mostly prevalent with the uneducated. If you have no stake in society (e.g., buying into education and respecting its norms and why you should), then you end up with a class that will not fit in or conform. If that is all a certain segment of society knows, then that is what they will repeat.

    Saying it is racism is an inelegant, intellectual cop out. It's far easier to say its hatred than a mix of societal, cultural, and personal factors. It is symptomatic of our larger cultural disdain for nuanced problems that may require nuanced and complex answers. It is a failure of America that we tend to view all problems age their solutions as being able to be solved with a sound bite. All of the problems facing our country are not things that can be solved in a sound bite. All the easy problems have been solved and sometimes solutions create more unanticipated problems. It is simply not a change x, then you get solution y thing and until people on all sides stop acting like it is, then these issues will persist.

    We will get there, it just takes time. We are certainly a more inclusive country than we were even at the beginning of my life. There was a time even recently, that no one thought having a black President was possible. It is amazing how far we have come and that I look forward to seeing a day where no one defines an accomplishment in terms of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or other characteristics.
  9. Bushmaster
    Offline

    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +450
    I have no interest in having anything to do with anyone who lives the hip hop street thug sagging pants lifestyle.
  10. g8orbill
    Online

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    67,613
    Likes Received:
    3,865
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Clermont, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +7,582
    I read somewhere before Lyndon Johnson's great society most black families were 2 parent families
  11. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +962
    I don't disagree with you, but you are leaving out the elephant in the room: slavery. Just throwing spit against the wall, but. . . Do you think that the injustice of slavery has created within the black community (or is promoted by "leadership") a sense of entitlement that actually holds many AA's back?

    I'm not saying it's unreasonable as I can't really begin to understand what a legacy like that might be like to live with. Nevertheless, we as people have to find a way past that and I'm not sure it's as easy as a lump payout.

    Your post reminds me of why (and I'll get crushed for this) I was always interested in the methods and theories of the Nation, Farrakhan, Malcom X and wonder if that wouldn't have been a better path than the Jesse's Al's, etc.
  12. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,437
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +433
    Unfortunately I disagree but then again being a military brat maybe I was sheltered from it. Born in 1980 and I sadly see things getting worse.

    Man I wish Alan Keyes had been electable when I voted for him in the primaries of 2000 and 2008...
  13. scamgtr
    Offline

    scamgtr Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Stuart, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +144
    I guess, but that is a sound bite issue too. It wasn't just white southern people that benefitted from the slave trade to North America and the Caribbean. Africans were sold into bondage by other Africans.

    Also, there were plenty of other races and ethnicities that came to this country and labored under awful conditions. African Americans do not have a monopoly on an awful origin story in this country. What about the genocide of the Native Americans that were here before the Europeans? Jim Crow was bad as well, but other groups were also discriminated against. African Americans aren't the only group in this country that have had a crappy hand. The difference is that other groups have had more success overcoming past prejudices and systemic prejudices.

    I am not sure what the solution is, but simply blaming all the ills of African Americans on white racism and slavery is just a cop out. If it were merely that, then how come there are so many African Americans in this country that subscribed to societal norms and succeeded. There has to be more to it than just white people holding them back. I don't claim to know the answers, but it seems to me that part of the problem is political correctness and the unwillingness of both sides to communicate in stark terms about race and actually listen to each other beyond talking points.
  14. T3goalie
    Offline

    T3goalie VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +22
    My kids went to school at Seminole HS in Sanford, FL. It is predominatly black HS in a predominantly black neighborhood with a mix of white, asian and hispanic students. Whites and hispanics are minorities at SHS. The school has an IB magnet program and Health Academy. There have been no race issues at the school, even during the Martin Zimmerman fiasco in Sanford. The school has several thousand of students and strict rules that all are required to follow. The kids all take classes together, play sports, engage in activities and focus on being kids. They had remarkable leadership from its principal Mr. Godrow. When the Martin/Zimmerman incident occurred the kids talked about it in class and realized it had nothing to do with them or their school community. It did not affect the kids or the school. Their were no hoodies, no vigils, no destruction of property, no grafitti, no fights between black and white or black and hispanic. There was no destruction of school property. Instead the kids and the school focused on themselves and itself... I am talking about Sanford Florida! Oakland and the like could take a lesson from Sanford, Florida.

    Jesse, Sharpton, et al, may have their demonstrations in Sanford... and they will have to bus in the usual suspects to make it look like the community is up in arms. I am sure the press will falsely report the civil unrest.

    There is a lesson in not adopting other peoples problems or turning a tragic situation between 2 people into something it is not.
  15. 108
    Online

    108 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    17,500
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    NYC
    Ratings Received:
    +999
    I agree the odds are much better

    But is this a black thing or a poor thing?
  16. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    29,640
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +3,519
    The black community has a epidemic of single parent households, and that is factual beyond any reasonable doubt.
  17. gator34654
    Offline

    gator34654 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,442
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +643
    I could be wrong but I think things have really improved in the last 40 years so that anyone who wants a descent education and job opportunity can do so. I have seen more minorities employed in just about every walk of life, news, sports, politics, law, ect. I say this generally speaking. I think we have spent more money in education and building up poor schools in the past several years. Money, education isn't the entire answer. Just throwing dollars at a problem doesn't always work.

    I do feel children growing up in a home with a mom and dad makes a huge difference. Growing up without a father figure, or growing up where the mom is working so hard and is so stressed out isn't ideal. Although this situation occurs far too often among AAs it is becoming quite common among all races. More and more single parents are raising kids and few young adults are getting married. IMO the breakdown of the family is a major factor in many of the problems this nation faces and I'm afraid our govt. hasn't helped to build up families. So, if we had more of a pro government for families, that would help. BO has many faults, and we all have our faults, but he is married and has wonderful children. I would love for them to stress the importance of family for all Americans as often as possible.

    But a solution to the problem of race would be sound homes teaching love, respect and patriotism would go a long way.

    One other thing, if we all saw each other first as Americans and all pulled for the best in this nation maybe we wouldn't be so quick to point out differences. It's like a team, we're not white, we're not black, we're not Hispanics, we're Gators.
  18. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +962
    I agree. Just seems to be the only major difference between the plight of blacks and other minority groups.
  19. SmootyGator
    Offline

    SmootyGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +268
    There are many factors. I was raised by a single mom. I was atheist. I turned out fine. Better than just fine, if I do say so myself!!! :D

    That being said, although there are a many factors, I believe parenting (by this I mean the love and discipline part of your upbringing) is by far the #1 factor in how a child turns out. I don't believe many people will argue with that.
  20. Allanon
    Offline

    Allanon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,819
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +395
    My wife teaches 3rd grade. She has had kids that had to get little brothers/sisters up, fix them breakfast and get them ready for school. Black, white and Hispanic. Sometimes it's because the parents are bad. Sometimes it's because both parents are at work.

Share This Page