So who voted to allow poor children to starve?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gatorstooth, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,524
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +491
    SNAP creates a sense of dependency. Start requiring community service to continue receiving it after X number of weeks. Encourage people to better themselves while helping them out in a time of need. We will build people up and save dollars creating a state of dependence.
  2. tim85
    Online

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,865
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,017
    I know what a "food desert" is, yes. It's a term that has no true agreed upon definition to basically describe an area that lacks access to healthy foods. Considering that our country has WalMarts and grocery stores littered across it, I have a hard time giving credence to it within this country. Even using the term "desert" in regards to food options in this country is pretty hyperbolic.
  3. gator996
    Offline

    gator996 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,963
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +15
    Put the numbers in terms of people rather than dollars...

    The proposed 5% cut in spending, in terms of the damage to millions of people is why its despicable.

    I'm a former republican...I understand the idea of fiscal conservatism quite well.
    I consider myself fiscally conservative.

    What the republican party is offering ISN'T fiscal conservatism but simply a cover for those who want to cut off opportunity to others.


    The 5% cut doesn't really affect the programs that are bankrupting the country.

    So why are we doing it?


    If you want to champion spending cuts....champion ones that will actually make a difference in the overall spending not ones that have no material impact.

    If you can be open-minded about that reality then I'll be open-minded about
  4. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,524
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +491
    Are you calling on our nation to violate the first amendment and establish Christianity as it's religion?

    I am a Christian and think that is a terrible idea...

    No one wants people to suffer and I surly do not want people to become dependent on a secular entity. I want them to become dependent on Christ and the Cross.
  5. g8rjd
    Online

    g8rjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +357
    Please see my post #33 in this thread.
  6. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,524
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +491
    Okay..

    And?
  7. Lawdog88
    Offline

    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,070
    Likes Received:
    470
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,557

    Well, actually, it's either a punk band, or a club. Kind of like The Masons.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. g8rjd
    Online

    g8rjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +357
    I'm suggesting to you that, if that is your rationale, there are programs that also should be cut. Yet, they aren't touched because of their constituency, namely from the right.

    As I quoted from the article there:

    I don't have a problem with someone attacking a program based on that rationale. But if that is the rationale, then perhaps crop insurance's blatent creation of "government dependency" deserves the same advocacy for the budget cutting knife as well.
  9. tim85
    Online

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,865
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,017
    You say that it damages and makes people suffer, and I say that I'm not entirely sure that's true. Am I despicable or immoral for disagreeing? I'm open minded enough to listen to what you have to say, and even though I think you're wrong, notice how I haven't called you immoral, unchristian, or despicable(Here's looking at you, tooth).

    Personally, I think there's a plethora of options for people to get healthy food in this country.(yes, even ones with dysfunctional parents, or whatever other kind of obscure scenario you want to throw out). I champion any kind of spending cuts we can realistically get. Do you honestly think if Conservatives proposed a massive cut they would be able to get that? I think it's more of a matter of trying to take whatever you can get, ideally I would be for a bigger cut with better options, but unfortunately that's not how our political world works.
  10. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,524
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +491
    I agree 100%. Which is why I asked...And?

    Edit... Though I think the vast majority of the mess is bipartisan "left" and "right".
  11. JerseyGator01
    Online

    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,879
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +509
    Did someone say the food stamp fraud % is 1%? I find that extremely hard to believe and I would love to see what their special definition of fraud is.
  12. gator996
    Offline

    gator996 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,963
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +15
    Well, in a nutshell there's the difference.

    Instead of addressing the actual problem you would rather cut out the social programs that won't change the problem.

    That's a pretty damning admission.

    There are 4 million people who live primarily on SNAP....unless you just want to willingly not believe the actual data then I can't help you.

    (3/4ths of which are minors)

    You want to rely on nothing but personal speculation that there are plenty of options out there.

    How can that get fixed in this argument?


    If you want to give up trying to fix the problem....strategic cuts to the programs bankrupting us..."Do you honestly think if Conservatives proposed a massive cut they would be able to get that?"...and instead want to rely on cutting programs that don't materially add to the deficit then that's your lack of conviction in doing what's right.

    I can't help you there either.


    Eliminating SNAP wouldn't do a thing to the budget....so basically you're pulling "pennies" in spending that helps keep people alive for some symbolic defense of a spending principle which at the end of the day accomplishes NOTHING.

    The political world works just fine in this regard....when the majority wants the ideas you believe in...you win the election and implement them.
  13. gator996
    Offline

    gator996 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,963
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +15
    Who said there was a special definition?


    Take the appreciation for the accomplishment.
    Its the same audit process that led to the changes in welfare and reduced the fraud in that system.

    Is it hard to believe that people aren't getting food stamps, in any material way, who don't qualify for them?

    If you don't believe, what's your expected rate of fraud then?

    Based on what?
  14. tim85
    Online

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,865
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,017
    Show me where it says there are 4 million people who live only on SNAP, and even if there were, if SNAP was cut, wouldn't they be the last ones to be affected? Wouldn't those who are affected most be the one's who are barely eligible anyway?

    In your opinion it wouldn't do anything to the budget. Some people think that if you cut enough small things across the board, you can get a large sum. You have to start somewhere. You don't acknowledge that our current political spectrum wouldn't even allow for massive cuts.
  15. gator996
    Offline

    gator996 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,963
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +15
    Tim
    The numbers are in the cited study from the national Poverty Center at the Univ of Michigan...in the Panera CEo thread. The study link is there also.

    I hear you on your 2nd point but that's not how it works with our budget problems.

    The things politicians on both sides of the aisle discuss cutting have almost no impact on the debt projections that are a problem for this country.

    You could take all of that discretionary spending and eliminate it and it would make a dent in the overall debt problem.


    Until you take on the big entitlements you're doing nothing but pissing in the wind and making symbolic cuts that get politicians votes from the uneducated voter but doesn't address the problem.

    Glad to get here with you.

    If you're cutting food assistance and it doesn't do a damn thing to fix the budget problem what are you accomplishing besides making it that much tougher for the poor to adequately feed themselves?
  16. newkastle
    Online

    newkastle Professional Lurker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Ratings Received:
    +63
    Congratulations on being the first person I have ever put on ignore. All I did was simply tell you my point of view and you accuse me of being a fake christian, patriot and American. I don't see how any further interaction would be worth while.
  17. Gatorstooth
    Offline

    Gatorstooth New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +19
    Not a problem. Apparently I touched an exposed nerve.
  18. g8rjd
    Online

    g8rjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +357
    Well, I'm glad we agree :)
  19. GatorFanCF
    Online

    GatorFanCF Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +623
    Hyperbole seems to win out with any change to a social program.

    The words "gut" and "slash" are used commonly in articles/opinion pieces about the SNAP vote, and "starve" in the OP. The vote cuts out 4 Billion/year on a program approaching 80 Billion/year = 5% as GT Gator already posted. Sorry, that's not a gut or a slash...it's a small bite. When one side must caricature the other (evil, greedy, non-Christian) it tells me they've lost the argument and now must try to intimidate and coerce others out of guilt.

    Yes, yes, yes...a thousand times YES there are other, many other, government programs such as very likely the Farm subsidy program that ALSO need to be cut (not gutted, slashed...but CUT); but, why not do both? This is the argument against incremental changes. Mayor Guliani cleaned up NYC by stopping small, petty crimes - people got the message that the city would not tolerate the BS. He was "faithful in the little things." We have a spending problem and taking away the twice a month Starbucks (metaphorically) is a start - the only things we are slashing when we do nothing are our financial wrists.
  20. theorangebluewinagain
    Offline

    theorangebluewinagain Guest Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,680
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +200
    They were not the one's who want to kill unborn babbies

Share This Page