so let me get this straight-we had to screw up the best healthcare system

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. SECund2nun
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    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

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    Are Germany, Japan, Australia and every other 1st world nation communist because of their health care system according to you?

    Is American communist because of the free elementary school system we have?
  2. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    If you think they have a Constitution that should protect them from what Obama is doing then it's a crime in their country too. But they don't... we just have the misfortune of having a dunce as the chief justice of our Supreme Court that can't even read an argument without rewriting it..
  3. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    Yeah remove insurance companies and add the no good, inefficient government... GREAT idea...

    Its unreal how much people are dumbed down due to party affiliation...
  4. SECund2nun
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    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

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    Since when does the right care about the constitution???

    The one candidate that followed the constitution in Ron Paul was ignored by most of the right.

    The right routinely supports anti-constitution candidates like Romney, Bush, McCain, Cain, Palin, Gingrich, Santorum who all support the anti-constitution foreign policy like the undeclared Iraqi war, drone bombings in Pakistan. They all support the unconstitutional bailouts aka corporate welfare for the big banks and big corporations. They also support the unconstitutional Federal Reserve and unconstitutional paper money instead of the constitutionally endorsed gold and silver currency. They also support the unconstitutional spying bills like the Patriot Act.

    Unless you voted for Ron Paul or a Constitutional/Libertarian candidate, you supported a candidate who violates the constitution routinely.
  5. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    That is in the Constitution so no.
  6. SECund2nun
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    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

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    The federal government providing education of any sort is unconstitutional.
  7. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    This oughta be good. Where? With specificity, please.
  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Promote the general welfare. Is basic education as it's interpreted. Where is busing or section 8 housing in the Constitution? Cell phones, EBT, SNAP, healthcare, affirmative action?

    On second thought, there is no Constitutional right for the Department of Education to even exist, I hope the next POTUS kills that agency.
  9. SECund2nun
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    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

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    The constitution doesn't say education and I wouldn't put education in with general welfare. I support public education, but I'm just saying why is it that people pick and choose when to follow the constitution.

    If we used general welfare then section 8 housing would be included in that as well.

    Do you support candidates that consistently follow the constitution (there are only a few)?

    98% of Americans don't.
  10. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    Don't we pay property taxes to pay for our public schools?
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    You're right it doesn't so lets kill that worthless agency right now!
  12. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    The Preamble isn't a source of substantive powers. You could perhaps make an argument under the taxing and spending clause, but you do so by making an argument that I'm sure you disagree with (although, in terms of Supreme Court jurisprudence, largely a correct one) that when spending for the "general welfare," general welfare means more or less whatever Congress thinks it means.

    Interestingly, while not really relevant to the discussion about federal powers, the Supreme Court has previously denied that public education is a constitutionally protected right: "Education, of course, is not among the rights afforded explicit protection under our Federal Constitution. Nor do we find any basis for saying it is implicitly so protected." San Antonio Indep. Sch. Dist. v. Rodriguez, 411 U.S. 1, 35 (1973).
  13. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I was playing devils advocate when I said it's in the Constitution and I have amended my stance since then. I think we should kill the DOE pronto and never look back.
  14. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Eh, I agree with the DOE's existence and think the taxing and spending clause provides plenty of support for it.

    Just was interested in hearing if there was some argument, distinct from the exact same one I can use to justify the government spending money on more or less anything it wants, that set education apart as something special for you.

    :grin:
  15. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Our government is way too bloated and we must find a way to cut spending.

    There are a lot of agencies that could be tweaked as well. I remember recently someone saying that 200 billion dollars worth of government duplication and redundancies occur in our government, maybe we should look at who does what and how many pencil pushers Washington really needs for starters.
  16. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    Because Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security have worked out so well!!
  17. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Your Dems had a chance to kill the Patriot act, but instead they re-upped it, and now your Dems own it. The in Iraq was voted on Constitutionally so it was very much "declared" and Constitutional.

    I'd vote for Rand Paul but not his uncle fester like dad.
  18. Bushmaster
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    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

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    5 pages and no one has attempted to even name 10 countries in which you would rather have surgery or see a doctor. Pretty telling actually.

    We have the best healthcare in the world. When I saw a Saudi prince at Duke University Hospital years ago for a liver transplant, I knew right then. This guy could afford anywhere in the world, and he came to the US.

    This country needs a catastrophic plan, or HOSPITAL INSURANCE, for major crap. Maybe something along the lines of $5000 out of pocket, then 100% over that. I don't need insurance to go see the doctor for the sniffles.
  19. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    This is a metrics issue. "Best healthcare in the world" doesn't really mean anything. You have to define the term. If your only definition is quality of care at the high end of the system, then certainly. I don't think anybody doubts that places like Hopkins, MD Anderson, Mayo, Duke, UCLA, etc. are some of the best medical facilities in the world.

    However, if you include metrics for cost effectiveness, quality of care at an individual level for different income levels, or other metrics, then this becomes a far more questionable statement. ACA is more focused on the financial aspect of care, where the US system is not comparatively strong, rather than on the provision side of healthcare, where the US is very strong, especially at the high end.
  20. BobbyFischer
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    BobbyFischer New Member

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    Singapore's health care is unsurpassed and costs a small fraction of what Americans pay. They have 3 types of medical savings accounts. They also had an enlightened authoritarian leader, Lee Kuan Yew, perhaps the world's greatest political thinker.

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