So, could this mean tides are turning?!

Discussion in 'Awesome Recruiting' started by pd_gator, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think there's a complete consensus on what schools are Public Ivies. The most legit rankings IMHO, are those published by Forbes. UF and Texas both fall just outside of the top 10. Based purely on visibility, Texas is well ahead of UF in the corporate world. Of the UF grads I do run into up here, a lot of them went to grad school somewhere other than UF. There is a pocket of UF accounting undergrad/UF MBAs at the big accounting and consulting firms. I've also run into a few tax attorneys from UF.
  2. DoctorGator

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    StrangeGator said:
    "Not sure how UF passed UT. Maybe Harvard likes UF better but recruiters up here seem to prefer Texas Exes. There are thousands of them up here, most in the brand management/marketing/advertising world. Their business, fine arts and education programs are all ranked ahead of UF. I was especially impressed with their journalism and communications programs. Their film program is among the top three among public universities. I talked my daughter into applying to the film school but she got turned down. Their preference for in-state applicants is similar to UF's."


    My gosh! I feel like I went to bed last night in 2018 and woke up in 1989. You two guys seriously need to exricate yourselves from the 20th century asap. :)

    I understand a nole refusing to give UF credit for anything. Even one that claims to have a UF degree. He's still a nole. But you, Strange.... I don't get. You seem to have contracted a case of Jessepalmeritus, a malady which manifests itself with a Gator trying so hard to show everybody that he is not biased and totally above suspicion - and totally worthy of street cred. - that he/she downgrades and depreciates accomplishments by UF.

    Let's go back to the beginning. No, UF was not on the original list of Public Ivies published in 1985. UT-Austin was on that list, but so was the University of Vermont. Things change. Chipley used to not have a McDonald's. Now it does. Things change. Although I will grant you that few things on this earth change slower than academic reputation, and this frustrates thebeejabbers out of those of us that are working 55-60 hours/week to get UF into the Top 3 Public Universities - Dr. Fuchs' stated goal.

    The Texas State Legislature cut funding to its state university system several years back and UT-Austin has been in free-fall ever since. Then, in the most recent legislative session, the State University System underwent "Draconian" cuts to its budget. More slip-sliding away to come. In the latest USN&WR rankings, UF was ranked #9 Public university, while UT-Austin was ranked the #18 Public University in the US. In the latest Greene's List of Public Ivy League Schools, there were four southern universities listed - North Carolina, Florida, Texas-Austin and Georgia.

    The only rankings that I could find that had UT-Austin ahead of UF was the Wall Street Journal, which had UTa at 10 and UF at 12 - but those guys lost all credibility with me when they ranked Purdue no. 5 and UVA no. 13.

    C'mon, Strange, its OK to show UF some love. Try it. It might look good on you. :)
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  3. DoctorGator

    DoctorGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Please see my reply to the nole. Also, UF has a bigger presence in the northeast than UTa. Don't you think its natural that a school located diectly under the midwest might have a bigger presence in the midwest, and a school located directly under the northeast might have a bigger presence in the northeast? UF is now ahead of UTa in most rankings, and for the reasons I posted in the other post, I think the gap will be widening over the next few years. If you look at the metrics for the USN&WR rankings, undergraduate education is not a big factor, its all about graduate programs and professional schools.
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  4. gnvgator

    gnvgator GC Hall of Fame

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  5. pd_gator

    pd_gator GC Hall of Fame

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    So um, how about that recruiting? Did I spell that right?
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  6. CaptUSMCNole

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    Doc - is the measuring stick you are using for rankings strictly undergrad?
  7. DoctorGator

    DoctorGator GC Hall of Fame

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    No. In fact, it is overwhelmingly grad and professional. I was in a meeting just yesterday where we talked about the concern that some have that we are sacrificing our undergrad programs for grad. I know that our Law and Engineering Colleges are ranked behind Texas, but there is more to these rankings than Law and Engineering.
  8. CaptUSMCNole

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    Doc - I think that is the disconnect. Outside of UF Medical school, none of UF’s big 4 are considered to be national when it comes reputations. UF’s MBA program is good if you want to do business in Florida but it is not a school you pay for in order to work in any major metropolitan area outside of Florida or Atlanta. Same with the law school. UF’s Engineering grad school is good but not when compared to UT Austin, same with their MBA and Law School, all of which are Top 20 in their respective fields. UF’s programs are not in the Top 25.

    When you talk about being a Public Ivy, I look at grad schools more than undergrad programs. Those are the schools that really matter when it comes to your professional credentials and networks. I think it’s the difference between just being regional versus national.
  9. g8r925

    g8r925 GC Hall of Fame

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    Good grief, I check another thread to find it completely off the rails as far as the title of the thread..... I truly hope Candyman shows up soon so we can get some actual information. Instead of the pissing matches that are taking over the recruiting threads.
  10. g8r925

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    Good read, I will say that I think Mullen can recruit with Saban and Smart and Urban, but he's going to have to string together some wins in order to get the brand back to where it belongs. It's not going to be an easy task for any coach but I believe we have the right man for the job. Really looking forward to this coming year to see what kind of progress we see on the field.
  11. CalGator

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    I remember a lot of posters on Gator boards making fun of f$u coaches poor recruiting the first few weeks after he was hired. They finished with a higher ranked class than UF after having less time to do it. Personally I’m not gonna start talking smack against them until we start beating them in February AND November. It seems like it’s been forever since that’s happened.
  12. INGATORSWETRUST

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    FSU has quite a few crystal balls, leans, and top 2 kids in this class and all our 4 star types. FSU will have a good recruiting class again this year
  13. Notoriousgator

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    He's getting ready for finals and making summer vacation plans. He'll be back around shortly.
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  14. DoctorGator

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    I do thank you for your service. At the same time, I will rely on those at the highest level of academia like my dean at Harvard, and those who rank schools for a living like Greene's Public Ivies, and the US News and World Report over a rival internet poster. As I posted earlier, academic reputations change slower than almost anything in life, but changing they are. Perhaps there is a lag between academia and industry, but within academia, UF is seen as on the rise and UTa is seen as descending.
  15. CaptUSMCNole

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    I can only privide an informed opinion on two of the Big 4 when it comes to grad programs.

    I’ve been running a business since ‘10 in the Northeast and as an alumni of a current Top 10 MBA program, UF’s MBA program is not a program that leaders within industries in this area recommend to professionals looking to advance their careers. I’ve actually had conversations with fellow UF grads that have followed what I’ve posted here, which is if you want to live and work in Florida then UF’s MBA program is a great option. However, if you want to work outside Florida or Atlanta, you need to go to a more nationally recognized school, ie Top 25 program, to make the time and money worth the ROI. UT’s MBA program is one of the programs that is mentioned by other MBA’s during those conversations.

    The other program is Law School. UF’s Law School is very similar to it’s MBA program but is closer to FSU’s Law School than UT’s. The reason is, according to a family member who attended and is now a faculty member at a Top 25 Law School, that UF’s Law School faculty is very good but resting on their laurels rather focused on publishing. They have a lot of grey beards who know the why and how but aren’t interested in engaging in professional debate within academic journals and are not going to retire any time soon. The publish or die axiom is not strong at UF’s Law school. The reason FSU has been able to creep up on UF in the Law School rankings is because they had a shift in strategy of hiring a bunch of young professors and giving them space and time to get published. This made FSU an attractive option to good, young law school professors that missed out on jobs offers from more prestigious schools when they came on the job market for the first time. They wan to be more attractive candidates for higher ranked Law schools in the future but know they need to publish to make that happen and FSU gives them that space. They looked at FSU as a staging point for a better jobs, while FSU assumes that they will be able to retain a certain amount of high quality professors who enjoyed working and living in Tallahassee.

    If UT Austin’s falling off the map in terms of undergrad and Med School, I’ll take your word for it. However, their Law School and MBA program are still highly regarded.
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  16. DoctorGator

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    As Ronald Reagan once said about liberals, "Its not that they are ignorant, its just that they know alot of things that are not true." Same with you. You know some stuff, but some of it is not true.

    You are right that the fsu Law School has been creeping up on the UF Law School in recent years, but the reason that the fsu law school is creeping up on UF is two-fold: 1) fsu is in the state capital. Externships with State Atty. General and State Supreme Court Justices is something that UF just can't compete with for geographic reasons; 2) Gov. Scott, as part of the move to name Florida the Pre-eminent university, and award $75,000,000 in state funds to the school to hie top faculty, had to throw fsu a bone, and that was to name the fsu Law School the pre-eminent Law School in the state. It must be noted, however, that the fsu Law School fell further behind the UF Law School in the last rankings. Conjecture is that the reason for UF's rise is because for years, the UF Law Review - to - Law School ranking ratio has been the highest in the nation, and that the Law Review's standing may finally be getting attention in academic circles.

    You are right that Texas-Austin's MBA and Law Schools rank higher than UF's. OK, fine. I have three sons currently in three different law schools, one at UF, one at Vanderbilt and one at George Mason. They are all thrilled with the opportunities offered by their law programs, and two of them were accepted by UT-Austin. I will not bore you, or the other unfortunates that have stumbled upon our discussion with their accomplishments, but none of them would change a thing. The one at George Mason was accepted to Georgetown and UVA, but chose George Mason because of their strength in his passion, national/homeland security law.

    Finally, there is no "Big 4." If you are looking at Engineering, Purdue is right up there. Look at the Law School rankings and Alabama is highly ranked. MBA, you got me there. All the top MBA programs are at top schools. Medicine? That's a grab-bag. USF? That's U. San Francisco? Would you consider USF, Alabama or Purdue elite schools, on a par with Michigan, UCB, UCLA or UVA? No? Neither is UT-Austin.

    When universities are ranked, they are ranked on the whole package, and guess what. UF is ranked ahead of UT-Austin in just about every one of those rankings. Its OK, just go with the flow.