Seton Hall and Niagara Rack Up 73 Fouls, 102 Free-Throw Attempts

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by tilly, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Oh boy...here we go.

    This dazzling post was sent via my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using jet packs custom built for Gator Country.
  2. MJGator8104
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    MJGator8104 VIP Member

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    That is ridiculous.
  3. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    I'm ALL for it. If the fouls fit the new definition of a foul, then blow the whistle. This is the kind of complaining I said was going to follow the new implementation of the rules. Its necessary and will improve the game in the long run. One step back - two steps forward. Much or all of this year might be the former. I think it'd help if we widened the lane and moved the 3pt line back, but think this will work anyway.
  4. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    I'm with REM here; Butler should never make the finals. Louisville should have not won the championship this year. Slow guys at Duke shouldn't be considered good defenders because they harangue you and get in your way to the basket.

    This is definitely a change for the better. It will just be rough at first.
  5. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I am still on the fence. I've always thought it unrealistic to call a foul on every infraction that fits the bill because you could legitimately call a foul on every basketball action by applying the strict definition of the rule. It is entirely too hard to play that sound. Seems to me a foul that impacts a play and gives one player an advantage over the other, even if that is a judgment call, demands more attention than incidental contact. If it is a matter of player safety, like you see in football right now, then that is a different story, too.

    At the same time, I hope you are right that the end product will be better offensive basketball, but fear it will get very bumpy along the way. If teams start sagging in the paint to avoid the hand check fouls, then we are going to end up with very stationary jump shooting offenses and very little dribble penetration or post up opportunities. In the NBA, as you say, the wider lanes and more protracted arches (not to mention the illegal defense calls in the paint) space the floor much better and teams who do want to pack the paint (Miami obviously comes to mind) better be able to close out on three point shooters.
  6. themistocles
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    themistocles Well-Known Member

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    I also am on the fence.

    I utterly agree that the mauling that has been allowed in the past must stop. However, I think that Duke's White Boys will continue to be allowed to foul without being called, as will Vandys, no matter what rule you put into writing.

    It is the implementation that is important. As rserina said so rightly, no one is so sound that you don't need to "bend" the rules a bit. The question becomes how much do you bend the rules. Obviously, referees who work games in Lexington, Starkville, Knoxville, and other such places, where, if they don't benefit the home team, they are highly likely to die after the game, or at least be severely beaten, will bend the rules in favor of the home teams far more than they will the visiting teams.

    There needs to be a reasonable middle ground, at which point REM's statement regarding long-term benefit will prove true.
  7. GatorPlanet
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    GatorPlanet Well-Known Member

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    You're not really going to play the race card, are you? Duke and Vandy don't get away with more fouls than other teams. If anything, the hard-fouling teams get away with more. Arky, under Richardson, fouled so much the refs got tired of blowing the whistle.
  8. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    That's why I didn't mention race in my post, but it's curious that certain slow players end up as good defenders in college and then are quite bad in the NBA. If you're good enough to be your league's defensive player of the year, a la Aaron Craft at OSU, then you should be decent in the NBA, but he won't even get drafted. It's a problem that low talent players are allowed to shine in one league because of rules and not in another.
  9. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Examples? I can't think of any off the top of my head. For instance, I think Redick has become a much better defender in the league than he was at Duke.
  10. GatorsGators
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    GatorsGators Member

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    Craft will probably be drafted.

    He'll be a solid defender in the NBA. His problem is that he's really mediocre offensively.
  11. GatorsGators
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    GatorsGators Member

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    I'm not a fan of the new rules.

    A little contact on the perimeter isn't a terrible thing, especially considering the amount of contact that occurs under the rim.

    I just don't know what the rules are supposed to fix. Is calling more fouls really going to get teams to play at a faster tempo? Nah, teams will pack it in defensively. Without a defensive three second violation, it'll be nearly impossible to get into the lane. We'll see a bunch of bad threes jacked up and a lot of free throws. How are the new rules supposed to improve the product?
  12. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    The rules are designed to stop teams like Louisville from fouling their way to a national title. Refs simply stopped calling fouls for fear there would be a backlash if they fouled out entire teams. Now they have a mandate to foul them out until the excessive fouling stops.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    As far as I understand it, there are two related reasons. First, they want to bring college contact rules into conformity with the NBA (don't understand why that excludes the lane, arc, etc., but maybe it is just a start). Second, they think paralleling the NBA rules will improve the quality of offensive play the way it did in the league. Again, like you I fear it won't produce the intended effect. We'll see how coaches and players adapt to it.
  14. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    Reddick has worked very hard and put on a lot of weight. Every other guard from Duke with their court slapping and charge taking has had no success in the league. It's their team as a whole that has always been consistently at the top of college basketball in defense with a collection of sub par defenders.

    It's not a race thing because Pitino did it this past year with a group of black players. It's basically gaming the system. It's also the reason that our Olympic teams have been sub par at defense under the Duke coach. He doesn't teach the type of D that professional players have to play.
  15. GatorsGators
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    I just think they've gone too far in their rule changes, and the adjustments most coaches make are going to hurt the game rather than help it.

    Do I think something needed to be done about the hacking Louisville was doing defensively last season? Yes. But it's pretty much illegal for the defender to touch the offensive player out on the perimeter, regardless of who initiated the contact. Charges are pretty much a thing of the past.

    The new rules put the defense at too much of a disadvantage. More points are going to be scored, but it's not going to be pretty. Who wants to watch two hours of free throw shooting?
  16. UFish
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    UFish Active Member

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    Our defense mugged people last year too. Easily the most physical defense in the Donovan era. Fortunately this ticky tack business wasn't implemented last year.
  17. austingtr
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    austingtr VIP Member

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    I'm not sure about the new rules.
    I suspect I will like/dislike depending on how it affect us. :)
  18. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    http://kpisports.wordpress.com/kpibasketball/


    Here's a good article on the "evolution of the game."

    http://www.oregonhoops.com/articles.html

    This is the final paragraph, but the whole thing is worth reading IMO - especially for those of you less familiar with the NBA (like me). He talks about the history of similar rule changes in the NBA and its effect on who is valued when it comes to high draft picks.

  19. Droppingin
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    Droppingin Premium Member

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    I read the article Remo and it does make sense with the goal making the game consistent with he nba.

    The question is whether or not the original rules should be honored. In other words, is there an absolute in the rules of bb over time? I do not think so for example, originally there was no dribbling.

    I like the new rule because it will allow the athleticism and skill of the players to become the driving focus of the game. I also think that there should be consistency from the perimeter through to the lane.

    Thus far in our two games I did not see a big difference though.
  20. number1
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    number1 Well-Known Member

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    Just in case, we better be practicing free throws. One of the Gators' opponents (Southern) has lost both of their games due to Marquette shooting 53 free throws and Middle Tennessee State 55 free throws.

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