September 11

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mocgator, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    I think this is what old is talking about:


    TORA BORA REVISITED: HOW WE FAILED TO GET BIN LADEN
    AND WHY IT MATTERS TODAY


  2. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    What were you, a chaplain, rev? jk, ev.
  3. DieAGator
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    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    I know buddy, if we had a Democrat in office 911 never happens, but IF it did, the Dem POTUS would have caught OBL the next day. And if we had a Pub POTUS this term OBL would never have been tracked down. Good on you.
  4. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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  5. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Yes...I'm sure that's part of it.

    Which, frankly, is what pisses ME off. Suffice it to say, I highly doubt you've ever been to Tora Bora. I have--February 06. It's not fun. Neither is in particularly fun in December. Awful, unpredictable weather and up against an unknown number of enemy fighters.

    Yup...that's an EXCELLENT time to be gung-ho and throw together a last-minute massive troop surge to the area.

    People criticizing the decision are like tennis players expecting to be taken seriously with their Sunday morning quarterbacking.

    Sorry to jump on you...but the ignorance of the tactical situation just to pursue partisan sniping always irks me. I realize that Republicans do much the same thing today with Obama (which I also don't agree with and have spoken out against as well).

    And no, I wasn't a chaplain, my MOS was in intelligence...the "rev" bit is because my favorite US soccer team is the NE Revolution up in Boston--and Gator Revolution has a nice ring to it.
  6. texigator
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    texigator Well-Known Member

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    And I'm still pissed off that Obama didn't send you, Too Hot's very own Rambo, over there to take Bin Laden out years ago.
  7. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    He's probably HAHO jumped more often into the mountains since it's quieter (the sound of the chute opening at a low altitude is louder than you think...and especially in clear mountain air, where sound travels further). HAHO jumps are from further away (you typically glide about 15-30 miles and as far as 50 miles away) and are usually what the SF teams do in the mountain areas...HALO jumps are more common where the air is thicker and the sound of the chutes doesn't travel as far.
  8. Spurffelbow833
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    Spurffelbow833 Premium Member

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    Thing I'm wondering is, why isn't somebody raising holy hell because they didn't get $25 million for killing the sumbitch? I'm not buying the idea that a Navy Seal is going to turn up his nose at that money once he's out of the military. If Osama bin Laden did in fact survive until May 1, 2011, whoever pulled that trigger is expecting a payday and is eventually going to surface with a lawyer in pursuit thereof.
  9. Spurffelbow833
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    Spurffelbow833 Premium Member

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  10. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    next day no.....however, GWB had 7 years to catch/kill OBL and chose to reduce the amount of military, CIA, etc in Afghanistan and elsewhere and aim them at Saddam Hussein on trumped up BS intel.

    Ever wonder what was the motive GWB had for choosing to spin intel so as to target Saddam Hussein with military/CIA/etc instead of utilizing the diverted military/CIA/etc from going after OBL? GWB haf OBL as a target following 9/11 as the orcherstrator of 9/11. And GWB chose to divert our nations resources from getting OBL to going after Saddam Hussein.

    BTW----Obama----Mission Accomplished in regard to taking down OBL
  11. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    And if Clinton had taken him out when offered, 911 would never have happened.

    We can play this game all day long.
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  12. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    I saw my enemy fire working alongside our military---in Columbia, Panama, and other areas in S America intermittently over a decade. I wasn't in U.S. military but I fought alongside. And was wounded by enemy fire. Unlike the military, there are many Americans, such as myself, who have/are doing hazardous work for our country in foreign lands.

    Many in military see combat....more though don't
    And vast majority of American civilians who never come under enemy fire, but there are some who do.

    So save your GI Joe arrogance that only military comes under enemy fire in foreign countries for people who buy that crap.

    Thank you for your service to America....but you are so full of BS with your attitude that civilians have to kiss military ass. This isn't a S. American two bit military dictatorship where civilians have to kiss military ass. This is America jack. And military do great service but you are not lords over civilians. Remember, in America ultimate authority over military is not he military....your boss is the POTUS(whether you like him or not) and the American people.

    I honor veterans and active military when I meet them and they have my automatic respect until such time as they start breaking laws or demanding that civilians kiss their butt.

    I suspect That if I met you you'd have my respect until you opened your mouth and started spouting your crap...at which time I'd laugh in your face.
  13. texigator
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    texigator Well-Known Member

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    I never said that you didn't come under fire, dear, only that you made a pathetic attempt to equate your WORK, from which you could walk away at any time with no sanctions, to military COMMITTMENT.

    I have never said that civilians should kiss our asses, but the way we Vietnam veterans were treated was shameful. Thankfully, that atmosphere has changed for the better.

    Far be it from feeling that I or other military personnel were "lording" over the civilian world-actually it was the polar opposite. I believed that WE, unlike YOU, were SERVING our country. I volunteered to serve and fulfilled my commitment. I certainly was no hero, I just did my duty, as did my two brothers, my father, my grandfather, my great grandfathers and my great, great grandfathers.

    My only beef with you, Rambo, is that you try to elevate civilian work to the level of a military commitment.

    Now, laugh away, because I gave up a couple of years of my freedom to make sure you could do just that.
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  14. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    I believe this changed in Desert Storm. The idea of "support the troops, even if you don't support the war" resonated because of the mistreatment of troops after Vietnam. However, Vietnam was the first war where television really captured the events and the US government was unprepared for how those pictures were going to play on the home front. Plus some bad apples gave all those doing their duty in Vietnam a bad rep.

    In addition to other lessons, the government has learned the media lesson of Vietnam and now takes much more control over what makes its way back to the home front. And I think the public has learned not to blame soldiers doing their duty and following the chain of command for the decisions of their superiors and political leaders. It was shameful and horrible how Vietnam vets were treated. I try to let them know I appreciate their service when I can to help heal those wounds.
  15. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    I was sitting in the recruiting office waiting to go to basic training in the Marine Corps when the attacks happened.
  16. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    That is a very ironic situation there Corpgator!
    No disrespect intended.
    I am stunned at the timing.
    I know that you had to be more than just stunned sitting there in the recruiting center watching or hearing that day unfold.

    I have some questions:
    1, Where did you do your basic training: Lejeune, Pendelton, or Quantico?
    2, What was going through your mind that day: Was it is, what the hell did I get into or was it like answering a call to duty?
    3, What type of reception did you encountered when you arrived at basic training?

    I know that we had some spirited debates in the past but I do respect and thank you for your service. By the way my old man was a SeaBee and a Marine, 5 years active and 25 years in the reserves. He maintained and operated amtracks. He is now gone but before he died he had a lot of respect for the Marines of your generation. He was amazed at the work you guys did in Iraq and Afghanistan.
  17. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    The irony was not lost on me. I was placed into the aircrew MOS because of my high asvab score and was scheduled to go October 15th. I wanted to go into computers, but there were no openings. They called me on the 7th to tell me that if I could go on the 11th, I could get the MOS I wanted.

    Needless to say, I didn't go and ended up going on Oct 15th as scheduled. They shut down all transportation for the day and the recruiter drove me home. I was stunned pretty much.

    Basic training was on Paris Island since I was east of the Mississippi. Everyone west goes to San Diego. Quantico is for officers. There's no basic training on Pendleton or Lejeune although I did ultimately end up at Pendleton as a CH-46E Helicopter Crew Chief. They said it had calmed down a lot in the month it took me to get to basic training. They had been running the obstacle course all day for a week right after the fact. It's never calm at Marine basic, though. There's just intense and more intense.

    I never went overseas. I was placed at the training squadron to work after I finished all my schools and they don't let you transfer out until you're ready to reenlist because they try to limit turnover, and I never reenlisted. Otherwise you usually do 2 years in helicopter squadron and then get to transfer if you want. When Iraq started, they came for volunteers and guys pulled rank to get out and I was far down the list. I didn't mind, though. I would have gone if called, but a lot of those guys never came back.
  18. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Corpgator thanks for the welled detailed reply.

    I knew that basic training at Quantico is for officer candidates. Out of respect I was not going to assume your rank.

    Also I did not know if you were located in the East or West coast.

    I didn't consider that the events after 911 would delay your transportation to basic training. I forgot that a lot of logistical activities were in a state of hold or in a transition.

    Overall sounds like you had a good experience.

    Thanks for your service.
  19. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Some people live for the "what if/s" in this world. Facts elude them.

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