"School privatization is a hoax, “reformers” aim to destroy public schools"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. GatorGrowl
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    GatorGrowl Forum Admin Staff Member GC Staff VIP Member

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    It is too bad that each child is not presented with parents or parent that can teach or even tutor (with public education) their children to get an education--children, teachers, parents and administrators are not equal, but we put them all under one big roof and hope the end result is getting the to next grade/level. If brother or sister happens to learn along the way then that is a bonus.
  2. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I know what you are saying but on the other hand, in my international traveling, I have often lamented the fact that the world is melting too much. The cross pollination of cultures has resulted in less interesting and unique experiences. I know that's progress but it still feels as if we're losing something (or a lot). I greatly enjoy some of our areas that have strong ties to their roots. When I lived in San Diego I had great Iranian and Brazilian food and cultural experiences. China Towns in NY and SF are also great. Hell, I live by some great ethnic neighborhoods here in white Oregon due to Nike and Intel. One place has, quite literally, the best hummus and gyros I've ever had (and many native Mediterranean/Middle Eastern people I've talked to confirm that).

    Basically, there's a natural beauty to variety in life.
  3. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    Why should anyone sacrifice their children's best interest in education to make "public schools better?"
  4. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what this has to do with the thread, but no one should. Every parent should do what is best for their children.
  5. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    Private school companies are bad because they don't get involved in the public school process and funding?

    Shhhhaaaaazaaaam!

    Who knew?

    Private schools and public schools should be held accountable to the same set of metrics. Those metrics should be closely tied to student accomplishment and learning. The delivery models that performs the best is the one that should be used the most.
  6. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    It gets sort of confusing and muddy because private school companies are running private charter schools funded solely by public taxpayers....same as public schools.
  7. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    No the private school companies making money off of charter schools are bad because they are taking money out of the public school system without providing any increase in value.
  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Really?
  9. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    Really.
  10. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about Florida charter schools but if we had the voucher program out here to defray costs and I sent my daughter to Jesuit or OES she would get a vastly superior education.
  11. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    When you compare apples to apples, i.e. students with the same socio-economic background and education needs, special needs, etc., public schools generally do as well as private schools. The difference is public schools can't throw the bad apples away, whereas private and charter schools can. Private schools have the ability to tell a parent/student not to come. And for profit schools can deny students that have needs that would make the student a monetary loss. Public schools can't. Yes, if you look at average cost per student, public schools are often higher. But apply some standard deviation, and you will see a large deviation in public schools that explains the average, and little/none in private.

    That's not to say our education system is great, or even good, and certainly it can be better. But the demonization of public schools gets us nowhere, and does absolutely zero good. Choice is good, yes, but choice just for the sake of choice is change just for the sake of change, and doesn't fix anything. And public schools aren't the enemy, aren't evil, and for the most part, given the circumstances, do as well as can be expected. In short, any company, public or private, that is given the dictate to education all children will run into the same issues. Just like Edison did a few years ago in Philly.
  12. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    Agree with all of this, with a caveat;

    I would write that to read;

    .......to improve education......
  13. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    Don't disagree. That said, while there might not be one delivery system that is ideal for all circumstances, that is not to say that for every set of circumstances there might be a delivery system that is best. Challenge is to find the correct one for a given set of circumstances.

    I have three children. They all went to public schools. We always moved to the best possible school districts. We were able to do that. The public model seems to work OK in affluent districts.

    Not so much in poorer districts.
  14. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure I agree with this.
  15. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    I found this article very interesting in that it shows how a school's budget is broken down. It's understandable that our students would do poorly on math tests when twice as much money is spent on foreign languages than Math. Perhaps enough money is being allocated to schools, and perhaps the teaching methods in public and private schools are the same. Could be the only difference is how the money is being spent.

    http://educationnext.org/breaking-down-school-budgets-2/
  16. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    Charter schools are doing better, in 2009 only 17% of them were an improvement on public schools. In 2013 they are up to 25% in reading and 29% in math.
  17. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    Not sure if that holds true for all districts.....ours cut foreign language instructors down to 2. And indeed there is a difference in where money is allocated.....public schools have a wide range of gifted programs, special ed and ESOL along with mandated reading and math instruction times....providing those services with the appropriate support staff will stretch a budget. I don't believe private, public paid for charter schools have these financial encumbrances.
  18. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    I'm not in disagreement with you, but you have to admit the course work to train a physics, chemistry, or advanced math teachers is a lot more rigorous than P.E. or English. Perhaps if more of the money were directed toward hiring qualified and trained teachers in those core areas, and less in non core areas, we might have better results. I don't think there's anything unfair about paying math and science teachers more since it required more rigorous course work.
  19. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    From my experience, teachers in the physics, chem and tech/math fields are usually top-notch. It would be a good idea to pay them more....those classes are much more rigorous than some others.
  20. AndyGator
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    AndyGator Well-Known Member

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    Charter schools are also an excellent idea as long as they're run as true charters. What I see that are called charters are just public schools run by private companies for a profit. The educational process doesn't change.

    This is not an argument, but an observation. We sent our kids to two of these kind of charter schools. One was top of the state, the other was top-10 in the country. They had excellent results, were open to all (usually had to have a lottery for admittance), and ran within budget. They stressed a more strict academic environment, self-reliance, and parental involvement. I don't see any problem with this type of school.

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