"School privatization is a hoax, “reformers” aim to destroy public schools"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. agigator
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    agigator Active Member

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    It's interesting that you claim students are products then you post a story making them out to be the product. Honestly, your story sounds more like propaganda than a true story. If it is true it only means that the businessman didn't think quickly enough on his feet. The teacher is basically complaining that she can't return her customers.
  2. GatorGrowl
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    GatorGrowl Forum Admin Staff Member GC Staff VIP Member

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    OTOH, if 25 "good" students get one bad teacher then the 25 suffer and little can be done....
  3. T3goalie
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    T3goalie VIP Member

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    The only way i let my kids go to the local public HS was to do IB; it was a school within a school. The Non IB program was properly referred to as the "general population." IB in public HS is a tremendous education. Without IB, i would have kept my kids in private schools and gladly paid.
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  4. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    Whether it's propaganda or a true story, it hits home. Explains the pitfalls of running education like a business.
  5. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    Your point is well taken, and the author has a response:
  6. agigator
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    agigator Active Member

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    No, it doesn't do either of those two things. Which is why you singled out that one comment and ignored the rest of my post. The fact is, education is already run like a business. Unfortunately, the business it's run like is Fannie Mae.
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  7. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    I would think this would be the greatest problem in the elementary schools where a bad teacher can put a student behind one year. This, I think, could be the problem of the colleges of education at universities.
  8. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    Beautiful! May I steal that comment?
  9. agigator
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    agigator Active Member

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    Not a bad response but it actually serves to make my point. There is no business that can cater to, and please, every customer but the public school system attempts to do just that. If that guy's blueberry ice cream were the public school system then blueberry would be the only flavor and the government would be forcefeeding it to us.

    The problem isn't that it's not run like a business. The problem is that it's run like a monopoly. There's no meaningful competition and so the product(whatever you consider the product to be) suffers.

    There's also a disconnect between the cost of education and the quality of education because people are not paying for it directly out of their own pockets.
  10. agigator
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    agigator Active Member

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    Sure.
  11. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    I found the website of Jamie Vollmer, the author of the blueberry story. Here's more of what he wrote from the point Tooth ended his quote. I think it's relevant.

    http://www.jamievollmer.com/blueberries

  12. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    to label 'public schooling' a disaster, etc is somewhat misleading

    My experiences(both as a student as well as a parent) has been the following

    -quality of public education in a school district is mainly determined by how involved the voters,(especially parents) in that school district are in regard to funding, overseeing, etc the management of the school district by school district administrators
    -grew up on north shore of Nassau County on Long Island. I attended both public and private schools in the area(mainly to receive as broad an education as possible as opposed to some notion that public school in the district was lacking). Much of the voters(especially parents) in the district were people who either made it in NYC and moved out to the island. Or the families were already in the area for decades and already wealthy and settled. Regardless, the parents in the district saw education for their children as being of prime importance. The voters typically supported funding for the public schools in the district(there were even incidences of voters rejecting a proposed school funding presented by the school district because the amount was below what voters were willing to invest in their children's education. Of even greater importance though than the money the community was willing to spend was that the community was closely involved via the PTA,etc in regards to having close relationship between parents and teachers in order to develop best possible education structure for the children.

    The above was in one of the top public school areas(Nassau County) in America(see the yearly US News and World Report rankings of public HS's--roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the public HS in the county make the list---and there are many public HS's)

    Have lived in PB County here in Fla many years. And the school district has been a major mess for decades.
    --years ago the school district put forth to the voters of the county a proposal for citizens of PB County to sink an extremely large amount of money via taxes) into the school district. There was major push by many voters , teachers, etc for the bill to pass. It got passed. What ended up happening was the school board building some Taj Mahal admin buildings for administrators while leaving schools still having classes in mobile homes on school campuses, poor pay for teachers, and lame facilities for the students. Voters put up the money. But due to political corruption within the education system COMBINED with voters not overseeing the use of their money---it turned into an unmitigated disaster. To this day(about 30 years later) there is still pretty much zero trust of the community in the county school board. And the children suffer. Due to failings of the education bureaucracy combined with voters too lazy to oversee the board.

    bottom line---whether it is public schools or private schools---they are only as good as the people involved want the schools to be. Money is a big part. But more important is how involved parents want to be. This is far easier to achieve in regard to private schools since most people when they write a check for private school tuition pay more attention that if they pay same amount via taxes for the public school. In addition, there isn't as much a bureaucracy in regards to a private school than there is for a public school district. However, if bureaucracy involved in changing things to publicly fund private schools---that bureaucracy would stand a pretty good chance at being a crock of feces as many public school districts.
  13. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
  14. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    And amen.
  15. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    I'm not sure a comparison to Fannie Mae is appropriate when you stop and think about what the public system really does.....educate every child from the lowest IQ to the highest, children that don't speak English, the physically handicapped, deaf, blind, emotionally handicapped, behavior disorders, autistic, gifted, average, the sick, homeless....with less and less services for these children every year due to budget cuts.
  16. brainstorm
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    brainstorm VIP Member

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    Good points.

    Public schools have a mandate to educate the difficult as well as those with regular needs. The former presents more expense and very unique issues - and costs.

    Home schooling means strong parental involvement - one of the reasons it has a successful track record.
  17. agigator
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    agigator Active Member

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    The comparison is appropriate because, like Fannie Mae, the government will bail it out, no matter what, and, like anything with guaranteed government funding, it's not run very well.
  18. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is true, but the schools are teacher to the lowest student and the smarter ones suffer for it. It's even happening in the community colleges.
  19. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what we said about Obama-scam, but no one listened. But the public school system is a joke right now - maybe it should be destroyed.
  20. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    good question a poster brought up.

    namely, in regard to education, what should the children/students be considered---blueberries, customers, etc.

    How about considering them children, who we as adults have a responsibility of making sure they have best environment, etc in which to learn what they need to learn so they can function as adults eventually with the best means between their ears to achieve what they hope to achieve.

    education of our children should(IMO) be about the children. The childrens' hopes and dreams. And that their education NOT be a battlefield for politicians, religions, etc for the power, etc of politicians, religions, etc(ie---the Hitler youth education system under Hitler that was to mold all the kids into perfect little Nazis. or the equivalent in Red China, etc)

    why do you think the Dems, GOP, various religions, etc are all trying to control the education system in America? They are battling for their own agenda, power, etc and not battling for the hopes and dreams of the children.

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