"School privatization is a hoax, “reformers” aim to destroy public schools"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    salon.com

    Follow the money and see who is profiting. From our taxes, at the expense of our children. Don't just listen to what they say, look at the results of their actions.
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  2. DowntownGator
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    DowntownGator Well-Known Member

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    I look at the results of our Public School system and color me unimpressed. Don't really know why anyone would think it's so great and beyond reproach, unless, of course, they are pulling a paycheck from my property taxes. Why is it that public schools ALWAYS want more $$$ and consistently churn out inferior products year after year?

    John Taylor Gatto. Get some:

    "School is a twelve-year jail sentence where bad habits are the only curriculum truly learned."
  3. ThePlayer
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    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    The public schools here in Los Angeles are completely scary to the average American across this country.
    There are 40,000+ teachers in the LA Unified School District and less than a dozen have ever been fired.
    The unions here protect their poor-performing teachers so well that you really have to sleep with a minor
    in order to qualify for termination.
  4. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    What's to destroy? They're obviously too late. NJ schools spend more in administrative costs per pupil than the ENTIRE cost per pupil in Finland.

    CORRUPTION RULES ... and fat white liberal bureaucrats are laughing all the way to the bank.
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  5. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    And your (other) point is?
  6. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    I read this once and it seems to respond to your comments. By the way, students are people, not products.

  7. oaklandroadie
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    oaklandroadie Well-Known Member

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    This dovetails nicely with the commentary in Slate last month that if you don't send your kids to public school then you're a bad person.

    This article fails because it assumes to "know" so much. And the charter school movement is a pimple on the elephants arse in regards to the problems facing public schools.
  8. GatorGrowl
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    GatorGrowl Forum Admin Staff Member GC Staff VIP Member

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    All 3 of my grandchildren are home schooled and seem to do very well. Would not wish them back into a public school as long as my oldest son and his wife are able to teach them.
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  9. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    Mmm, I love me some John Taylor Gatto. Never realized how right he was until I was standing in the front of a classroom.

    Looking at the results of our public school system, what makes you unimpressed with it? When you compare our best public school students against the world's best students, ours are right at the top of the list. When you compare our students from poverty, or our special ed students, or our minority students, or our students whose native language is different from the language they receive instruction in to their peers in other countries, you very often can't, because in many countries those students don't even go to school.

    There is a lot of hand-wringing over the sorry state of our schools, but when you get right down to it, our schools are doing some great work, the problem is the sorry state of the students going into our schools. And that problem can't be fixed by the schools.

    The public schools aren't beyond reproach, but the privatization of our schools is not resulting in greater student achievement (at the expense of the students left behind). It seems like a solution that doesn't solve the problem, and itself causes more problems, would not be the best solution.
  10. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    The streets of LA are also completely scary to the average American across this country. In fact, most things about LA are completely scary to the average American across this country.

    What really protects the poor-performing teachers the best is that no one wants to teach there. Same for Duval here in Florida. They never have full staffing at the end of the hiring season, they are always begging people to come and interview right up until school starts. And the week before school starts they have to hold their noses and hire the least worst applicants just to have a teacher in every classroom.

    If a principal takes care of their paperwork, getting rid of a teacher is pretty easy. But they have more important things to worry about, which should be kind of scary to the rest of us that as bad as some of these teachers are, the principals have more pressing fires to put out.
  11. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    How does this dovetail nicely with the commentary that if you don't send your kids to public school then you're a bad person? They seem to be talking about completely different things.
  12. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    Home schooled kids do very well, and I know several parents who do it quite successfully. They get together to go on field trips and things like that, and the kids are still allowed to participate in school athletics. One thing I find troubling is that there is no funding for home schooled kids. Even $1,500 per year could buy some good educational computer software.

    Charter schools are also an excellent idea as long as they're run as true charters. What I see that are called charters are just public schools run by private companies for a profit. The educational process doesn't change.
  13. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I'm certainly open to alternatives. But I do think the primary motive of some on the right is to completely dismantle public education.
    I remember when vouchers first came about, and some people said: "Wait a minute. So you can take taxpayer money and spend it someplace else? That sounds like the most left-wing thing I've ever heard of."
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  14. Gatorstooth
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    Vouchers were actually created back in the 50's as a way to fight integration of public schools. Now it's just a way to make some quick money in the voucher school cottage Industry. Now charter schools are all the rage and several Florida legislative leaders are involved in them. House Speaker Will Weatherford is said to be going in on one but I haven't seen any evidence of that.
  15. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    There are clearly a lot of companies entering the voucher business on a purely profit motive. If they can provide a good education, I don't have a problem with that. But I do remember a few charter schools in Jacksonville which were clearly badly run. The principal made six figures, his wife was assistant, his daughter was assistant. All very well paid. Teachers weren't certified. Paperwork wasn't filed on time. The school board tried to remove the charter, but the state overruled.
    My basic problem is the segmentation. When I was coaching my daughter's soccer team, I once counted 3 of the 18 girls going to their neighborhood high schools. The rest were magnets and privates.
    I find it odd that the same folks who complain about immigrants not melting into America champion vouchers. What do you think is going to happen? Bosnians will go to Bosnian charters. Blacks will go to black charters. Jewish to Jewish. Christian to Christian ...
    We are going to wipe out the classic American way of everyone in a neighborhood going to the same school.
    Actually, that's an exaggeration. In neighborhoods full of nothing but middle class and upper middle class, everyone will still go to the neighborhood school. It's just where there's a broad mix of people that parents will use vouchers to make sure their kids go to school with kids like themselves.
  16. oaklandroadie
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    oaklandroadie Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. The whole point is that we should sacrifice everything to make public schools "better".
  17. oaklandroadie
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    oaklandroadie Well-Known Member

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  18. G8trGr8t
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    sorry Phil, this is just not true. my uncle was a principal in Clay County for 18 years and he was about as organized and documented person you would ever meet and he could not get rid of bad teachers. period.
  19. Gatorstooth
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    Gatorstooth New Member

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    It's not that hard to get rid of a bad teacher, and you don't even need a reason to fire them during the first six months. After that you need to have a reason. One of the characteristics of bad teaching, I believe, is poor classroom control. Out of control classrooms must be very stressful places to work so I would say the students get rid of more bad teachers than a principal could.
  20. 108
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    in many areas, the current system isn't acceptable, but adding "for-profit" is going to hurt it even more...

    just a way to skim as much money off the top
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