San Francisco Airport Uses Tax-payer Funds To Construct Prayer Space For Muslims

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mocgator, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Moderator

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    One of the questions that have come to mind with this is if wudu is based on the statement:
    Why is it sufficient to just wash hands, face, feet, mouth and nose? If you're sitting in a cab all day, I would have to imagine that this is a shortcut to a proper shower.

    Go GATORS!
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  2. Gatoragman
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    I get your logic Ben, makes alot of sense, but what about the rest of the religious taxi cab drivers? They have to park, go into airport, pray, get back into car, etc......
    Once you make a special accomidation for one, don't you have to for the rest?
  3. OaktownGator
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    True... except I don't think any of the rest of men take time out to pray during work shifts. Islam is pretty unique in that respect, right?
  4. Gatoragman
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    Oh, so now I get it, since muslims are unique they get special considerations. Well hell if we would of started the thread with muslims are unique and they desrve special considerations it sure would have save 6 pages of bloviating!!!!!
  5. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    It's not like the airport constructed a chapel for Islam, they essentially said "Hey, would it be possible to get running water put in the parking garage?" and the airport authority did so. If there is some other basic infrastructure that some religion would like to have in the parking garage (lights, water, etc.) I would certainly be open to the airport installing it. But a faucet isn't the same thing as a chapel.
  6. OaktownGator
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    Definitely one way to look at it. There's nothing particularly special about having some running water to freshen up, but non-Muslim cabbies were probably not asking for it.

    I'm not entirely sure what this room looks like or how it's set up, but I'd advocate that it be set up with an area so any of the cabbies could quickly and comfortably wash up, as well as an area to pray, or just relax for a few minutes if that's what they want to do.

    Then it's general purpose. No special accommodations for anyone. And probably a lot of the fares benefit from having cleaner and more refreshed drivers.
  7. MichiGator2002
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    About the last time it occurred to me to wash my feet in the men's room sink, actually.

    How much money would it take for you to go, at peak cab traffic, spigot washing traffic, and go wash a coffee stain out of a shirt or tie? You were on your way to the garbage, have a meeting to get to, oops, here is this stain. Totally plausible scenario calling for se host use of this convenient public, secular water access. How much risk do you think you would perceive there? How sure are you that you wouldn't be thought to be profaning an instrument of religious practice?
  8. GatorBen
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    Theres a picture on page 1. It seems to just be in the parking garage (not a room at all) and appears to be the little foot shower head (like the showers at the beach have at the bottom) coming out of a concrete barricade with a curb to channel the water to the drain and a metal bus-stop style bench sitting in front of it.
  9. OaktownGator
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    I saw that but don't know that represents everything in the room.

    I believe there should be generic accommodations like a regular sink, maybe a quiet sitting area (not just a place to kneel), so that this is not an accommodation specific to Muslim cabbies, but to all cabbies. Perhaps that exists. I don't know.
  10. fastsix
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    Do you generally piss in the sinks at airports? After all, they're just "public" drains right?
  11. MichiGator2002
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    So you would feel comfortable and totally entitled to use this spigot for any function customarily associated with a public restroom sink? I gave a scenario above, rinsing a stain out of a shirt you didn't notice until you were down in the garage. You don't think there would be anything wrong with queuing up between men there to get their wudu on, correct? Nobody around you would react negatively at all, right?
  12. fastsix
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    I don't like that there's a spigot set up for religious reasons, but the idea that pissing in it shouldn't cause complaint is as ridiculous as the idea that pissing in a bathroom sink shouldn't cause complaint. And yes, I'd feel comfortable using it for anything I'd use a airport bathroom sink for - which, in total, would be washing my hands. Although the chances that I'd want to use a spigot in a parking garage over a bathroom sink are pretty slim.

    Also, while I don't like the idea of a religious spigot or chapel in an airport, I would still treat them with some level of respect. I would no more wash my underpants in the religious spigot, than I'd use the airport chapel to change a baby's diaper. Just because I don't believe in your God or their God, doesn't mean I go out of my way to antagonize either of you without provocation. Be Christian or Muslim all you want, as long as you leave me out of it, I'll leave you out of my beliefs.
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  13. wargunfan
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    Are rhetorical questions just a little above your pay grade?
  14. wargunfan
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    Do you generally work hard to miss the point? Do you generally use profane slang for dramatic effect? Have you never heard of uromysitisis?
  15. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Clever attempt to deflect from the hostility imbued in your previous comment.



    Why have you avoided answering the questions I asked of you in the post on the other thread after you asked River and Dyno if they had souls? Do you think yourself inadequately prepared to take on the challenge of the questions?

    http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showpost.php?p=6637269&postcount=123


    Why is it some people run from questions they don't like? Just as you did it in the thread on the Separation of Church and State, Tim did it earlier in this thread. He failed to respond to comments as requested then left the thread entirely in an apparent effort to refuse answering. Gray did it a couple of months ago on another thread. If a thread participant is not willing to respond to questions about something they have posted, why do they enter the discussion/debate to begin with?
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  16. wargunfan
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    Run? I make a point or ask a question. When the other person ducks the question, as Dyno and River did, I move on. Your Modus Operandi is to bore people to death with long and odious posts in a transparent effort to impress people with your accumen on a particular subject. I have looked at enough of your posts to see that there is nothing much to look at. By the way, a truly intelligent person can make a resounding point with a few words. What does that tell you? Now run along an try to impress and divert the low intelligence posters.
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  17. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    What does this tell me? That you don't want to answer the question finding it more expedient or self advantageous to denigrate my intelligence. And that you have prepared no Biblically based dogmatically sound rejoinder to the inquiry about souls on the other thread.
  18. lacuna
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    Foot baths for cabbies in other U.S. airports

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com...haria-foot-baths-at-indianapolis-new-airport/

    Tucked away in a corner of an out-of-the-way bathroom on the vast grounds of Indianapolis’ new airport, back where the cab drivers play gin rummy while they wait for fares, is evidence of the city’s growing diversity.

    It’s a trough, about 2 feet by 6 feet, marked off by a cement wall about six inches high. Two faucets empty into the trough.

    It’s a foot bath, and it’s not for travelers. Rather, it’s for the Muslims cabbies who observe the purification ritual of “wudu.”

    “It’s very nice, much better than the old airport,” said Farh Nasir, a Muslim from Somalia who washes his feet in the bath several times a day.

    There was no foot bath at the old airport.

    Nasir used to sit down outdoors and pour water over his feet from a bottle. Others used bathroom sinks.

    The custom in Islam is to pray five times a day. Cleanliness is a prerequisite to prayer.

    As the number of Muslim cab drivers in the U.S. has grown, other airports, such as those in Phoenix and Kansas City, have accommodated them with foot baths.

    There have been mild protests. Last year, when the foot baths were in the planning stages here, members of an Indianapolis Baptist church staged a rally to oppose the baths as a dangerous caving-in to Islam.

    Today there are two foot baths, one in the cabbies’ men’s room, the other in the women’s. The women’s doesn’t get used, cabbies say, because there are no female Muslim cab drivers. Read it all via a dhimmi reporter who even went out of his way to include a Christian who found a use for the Islamic footbath – IndyStar.com



    The foot baths at the Indianapolis Airport sound about as glamorous as the one in the parking garage at the SF airport.

    In August, 2007 the NYT reported on foot bath installations at a number of universities around the country. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/education/07muslim.html?pagewanted=all

    Foot bath at Eastern Michigan University
    [​IMG]


    Foot bath at Boston University installed in 2011
    [​IMG]


    I don't know what you law types would call this, but it was published in the Michigan State Law review. The author thoroughly analyzed the matter and concluded it was a constitutional violation.

    http://msulawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2008-4_Bosch.pdf

    After thinking about it some more I still think it is a good idea to put them in places where sinks are being pulled from walls and water spilled on floors is hazardous. In that respect their installation is of benefit to everyone who uses a restroom where Muslims are washing their feet.


    [​IMG]
  19. tim85
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    As far as them being in other cities - I would guess most people have no idea this thing is going on. Why can't the Muslims just buy a bag especially for carrying water to wash their feet with? Carry a small basin in the trunk of the car, wash feet, pray, etc. However we can't keep it to their own responsibility to take care of their own personal religious obligations - people somehow now have to cater to it. It's pure silliness.
  20. MichiGator2002
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    The UM-Dearbornistan thing is still inexcusable. Not seeing why vandalism justifies what, for an accommodation of this kind for any other religious activity, would otherwise be an establishment clause violation. No secular purpose, primary effect advances religion, slam dunk case if only it wasn't an Islamic practice.

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