Rule clarification...

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by buddhistgator, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. buddhistgator
    Offline

    buddhistgator Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +252
    I need a BB rule expert help here. Genuine question here.

    It relates to charge calls. I'm watching Julius Randle operate and I realize that I don't understand it all.

    I get the general rule that a defensive player has to have their feet set prior to contact in order to merit a charge. I also get it that if a guy is driving to the basket, you have to have your feet set outside that little circle to get a charge.

    What I don't understand is what the offensive guy is allowed to do once they are in the circular area. Randle pretty much hops his 250 lbs of backside into a defender and effectively seals / bounces the defender out of the play. I'm wondering what the threshhold is for an offensive foul in that small space under the basket.

    I understand that rules and UK will strike a certain cord on the board, but I'm curious to hear any interpretation here so that I will know when we are being robbed :)
  2. mdfgator
    Online

    mdfgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,277
    If they are body to body, not much u can do to stop a player like randle that close, the bigger stronger guy wins, if there is space hold your spot and you can still draw a charge if the post player rams into you. But it's best to fight and hold your ground before the player receives the ball.
  3. buddhistgator
    Offline

    buddhistgator Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +252
    Thanks. The plays I notice it most are on the offensive rebounds in which case you've already lost the battle for real estate.
  4. phideltdj
    Offline

    phideltdj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +534
    Actually a defensive player doesn't have to have his feet set to take a charge...that is a misnomer created usually by the announcers. You have to establish a legal guarding position and technically you don't even have to be facing the offensive player...you can have your back to them. The defensive player has every right to any position on the floor as long as he obtains it legally. Also, there is a rule called verticality where you can jump off the floor and as long as you are in a vertical plane it is considered a legal guarding position. What you have to understand is that the game has evolved in areas where the officials will not call certain things even though the rulebook is clear. For example, the jump stop has become part of the game and no official calls it a travel but the jump stop is the definition of a travel in the rule book....if you leave both feet and jump in the air and come down with the ball before a pass or shot..it is a travel. Most of these rule allowances have evolved from the NBA to allow for more offense to supposedly make the game more entertaining because people like offense and not defense....that is why post players get away with so much on the offensive end as well. Offensive players clear out the defender all the time to protect their shot from getting blocked but that is rarely called as well.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. PCBeach
    Online

    PCBeach Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings Received:
    +53
    I don't think you will see a charge called if a big is backing a guy down. You pretty much have to be turned to the basket to get a charge called on you. Quickest things that will get you an offensive foul are dropping the shoulder, taking a step forward into a set defensive player or extending your arm to clear space.
  6. G8R92
    Online

    G8R92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +500
    All that you need to know is that Kentucky is good for basketball while Louisville is bad for basketball. ;)
  7. G8rNkoko
    Offline

    G8rNkoko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    Likes Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +584
    A clear example is yesterday in the last minute or so in the game, Randle got a rebound right at the end line and then jumped backward running into a defensive player standing still thus clearing out space for him to get a layup. This is usually not called although it is clearly an offensive foul as defined in the rule book.
  8. tampajack1
    Offline

    tampajack1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,770
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +309
    What difference does it make as to the charging rule? Andrew Harrison and Julius Randle are allowed to shove off with the off arm and barrel over whoever they feel like barreling over without an offensive foul being called. This is just one of many reasons why I despise the Kentucky team.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Lawdog88
    Offline

    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,459
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,932
    Good discussion.

    And while we're at it, what is a moving screen violation nowdays ? If the defender - in the typical screen position, arms down, protecting nuts - shuffles his feet ? Or, is major lateral movement required ?

    Or what ?
  10. grant1
    Offline

    grant1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +464
    Randle and Stokes pretty much commit a charge very time they drive the basket.

    Furthermore, why does anyone complain about a charge call in the last minute? A foul is a foul and not blowing the whistle because of time remaining gives the offense way too much of an advantage.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. orlandogator
    Offline

    orlandogator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,430
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +163
    Shaq mad a living off of this crap.
  12. manigordo
    Offline

    manigordo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +272
    Rules vary from team to team. It is the most disgusting part of the game.

    (Well, that, and recruiting violations which also seems to vary from team to team.)
  13. G8rNkoko
    Offline

    G8rNkoko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    Likes Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +584
    The situation has become so lopsided in favor the offense that it has led to a team, Ky, designing their offense around the dribble drive to exploit the way refs call fouls. There needs to be a return to a more balanced interpretation of what is an offensive or defensive foul. Right now it is out of whack.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. UF24ou14
    Offline

    UF24ou14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +595
    That's exactly what happened at the end of the first half against Michigan when the KY player drove the lane, shoved the guy away from him, and tied the score.
  15. Lawdog88
    Offline

    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,459
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,932
    I say we rat the bastids out to the officials, in advance. Somehow.
  16. vaxcardinal
    Offline

    vaxcardinal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,631
    Likes Received:
    479
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +692
    but is it Kentucky's fault for taking advantage of the way the refs call the game or is it the refs fault for calling the game they way they do?
  17. ehurnie
    Offline

    ehurnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +144
    This is true. I've played a lot of basketball and consider myself a good rebounder. I've played nba players, former and curren D1 players, but the strongest guy and the guy who frustrated me the most was a big-butted former baseball player. I could not move him and no matter how much I tried (and I tried very hard as rebounding was my main contribution to this team) he completely owned me. I looked at the refs every other play as he just manhandled me, and one ref finally said there's nothing he could do. lol. It was a city league ref, but I think this parallels fairly well.

    Big butts battle best.

    PS: strength/leverage and a natural feel for rebounding are more important when the playing field is somewhat even.
  18. mdfgator
    Online

    mdfgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,277
    No doubt!
  19. tilly
    Online

    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    20,695
    Likes Received:
    1,149
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC via FLA
    Ratings Received:
    +3,847
    Let me see if I can explain this rule very simply.

    Kentucky charge calls = Alabama holding calls.

    Hope this helps.
  20. grant1
    Offline

    grant1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +464
    I just don't get it. If a defensive player moves an offensive player out of the way while setting up for a rebound, it should be a foul. Boxing out is one thing, pushing someone out of the way with your body is another. Just like the offensive player closing the gap on a parallel move to the basket, then moving the D guy back with your body (ie strength) should be a charge, though that's not called unless the shoulder is lowered. The should position should have nothing to do whether or not a foul is called.

Share This Page