Right now, USCe resembles way more of a football university than UF

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by nashg8r, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. DieAGator
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    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    Like it or not there's a difference between UF and SoCar. UF is easier to recruit, has better facilities, a history of great success, and located in a talent rich state. When Spurrier took over SC it was a true building process. Not to mention, Spurrier wasn't losing games because he was inept or failed to have control over his team and coaches. Yeah, he had some problems to deal with along the way, and did, but never should you have sensed incompetence.
  2. OaktownGator
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    If Foley had decided to fire Muschamp this season, it would have been justified. But he didn't. Muschamp needs to make some improvements on his staff and he's getting that chance.

    So, what are we as fans going to do? How are we going to support our team? Or not?

    Is it really reasonable to rail on Muschamp for a season (2012) where we won 11 games and went 4-1 against top 10 teams? Even with a weak offense?

    Is it not possible that with the right coaching staff changes and with the increases in talent and depth on our roster, he could replicate the defense and ST play of 2012 and combine it with much more effective play on offense? And where would that put us?

    I say let's be positive. If it doesn't work, the torches and pitchforks are coming out. We all know that. Let's not bring them out before it's warranted.
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  3. ofmgator
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    Seems like we beat the hell out of USCe last year with a full plate of players.You have to be living under a rock if you think losing your best players on offense and defense does not affect your ability to compete. SOS lost to UT because his QB was hurt! We lost two QB's, RB's, lineman, DB's and .... WM will right this ship if he makes the right hires.
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  4. 3xchump
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    SOS was 21-16 in his first three years at USC. I do doubt that he inherited 11 players on a current NFL roster, with most likely 4-5 more Urban players going to be added to the list.

    But really, injuries are no excuse when you lose to Vandy and GSU, who were also injury riddled. Missouri started their backup QB for the first time against us. Miami we were injury free., minus Debose 3 receptions for 25 yds in 2012.
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  5. RemainCalm
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    RemainCalm Active Member

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    Hey now, he was our most explosive wr. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  6. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    To the disagree for the above post...How many National Championships were won by the SEC 1990-2001? (3?) SEC has 7 in a row right now not to mention all the BCS games by the SEC #2.
  7. Wormwood56
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    If you don't understand my root analogy, you can't have more than a middle school education, frankly...
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  8. LurkerExposed
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    Spurrier himself has stated many times that the Florida team he inherited in 1990 was stocked with talent. The South Carolina team he inherited from Lou Holtz was anything but. He started off running 10-15 players from the program. His first recruiting class was a poor one due to him not having any time to put together a staff and hit the recruiting trail. Only about 10 of the entire 28-man class played out their college careers there. As it is, SC as a state simply cannot match up with FL when it came to talent-rich prep football prospects, so starting off in a talent hole like SOS did at USC - compared to starting with a roster flush with talent like he did at UF - is an entire world of difference.

    Your comments might have more value to them other than being a hater's agenda, if USC was bringing in the talent that they NOW have been bringing in over the past 4-5 seasons, and they were STILL having 6-6/7-5 seasons. If they had this talent back in 2005, '06, etc., would they be having 10- and 11-win seasons then? What value would all your comments have then? And therefore, what value do they hold now?
  9. Wormwood56
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    Die, Arkansas and Texas A&M had less talent, and facilities or recent success were no better than USCe, yet Petrino and Sumlin BOTH had immediate success. Look at what Malzahn did with a 3-9 Auburn team. Spurrier's first five years were no better than Holtz's last five years.
    USCe has also benefitted from rapid growth, and besides, SOS only competes with one school, while Florida goes up against FSU, Miami, and the other schools, plus poaching from Clemson, Alabama and Southern Cal.

    As for losing games due to poor play-calling, SOS averages one loss per year for that reason. Gamecock fans will tell you that. Spurrier had very little control over Stephen Garcia and other troublemakers, continuing to play them, and if you recall, his defensive coaches had a knockdown dragout on the sidelines this year.

    To be truthful, if SOS wasn't named Spurrier, his seat would have been red hot in 2008. Spurrier only started winning games when he no longer depended on 0ffense to win them. He became a defensive-oriented coach and started winning big.

    2011: Total Offense 74th, Total Defense 3d
    2012: Total Offense 82d, Total Defense 11th
    2013: Total Offense 35th, Total Defense 17th

    Compare:

    Avg Total Off, 2000-2004: 74th
    Avg Total Def, 2000-2004: 32d
    Average W/L Record: 8-5

    Avg Total Off, 2005-10: 70th
    Avg Total Def, 2005-10: 40th
    Average W/L Record: 7-5

    Average Total Offense: 64th
    Average Total Defense: 10th
    Average W/L Record: 11-2

    The massive difference is not offense. It is defense.
  10. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    Ehhh! It's ok. I live here, my wife's business is 3 miles from the stadium. But this state does love them some usc and clemson.
  11. Wormwood56
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    Yes he did (11 players, to be exact), but only two players were starters: RB Demetrius Summers and DT Moe Thompson. The rest were reserves, and many were 3d and 4th deep.

    His 2005 class was ranked 23d in the nation. Here are his class rankings:

    2005: 23d
    2006: 24th
    2007: 6th
    2008: 24th
    2009: 12th
    2010: 25th
    2011: 18th
    2012: 19th
    2013: 16th

    Avg: 19th

    It wasn't that bad. Indeed, he had worse classes at Florida (2001 is a shining example).

    A development issue, perhaps? At least, that is what folks say why Meyer's players didn't develop.

    USCe only has Clemson to compete with as well. Clemson also recruits, and in that time frame, they averaged 17th in the nation. Arkansas averaged 22d during that span. Texas A&M averaged 19th. Mizzou averaged 37th. Vandy averaged 68th.

    It's not like SOS was at Vandy or Kentucky. USCe recruits well, about 7th in the SEC.

    "Hater's agenda?" What's that? Something adolescents do? No, they are doing well and Spurrier deserves much credit for it. But they have been recruiting reasonably well, about middle of the pack. Franklin and Pinkel has done more with FAR less than SOS did. Why aren't they lionized?

    Probably not. Go look at the rankings. the reason why is that SOS insisted on using the Fun n' Gun as the foundation for this team (remember the "Cock n' Fire?"). In 2011, he completely changed his philosophy, to become a defensive-oriented coach, and the results speak for themselves. In the SEC, only Saban and Miles are better, but there are much better offenses than Spurrier's at USCe, and it isn't talent dependent, either.

    Analysis has value. Whether you agree or not is your opinion, and I respect that. I will correct deficiencies, however.
  12. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    Last post on this thread. I have never been a Spurrier worshipper, but I certainly do understand the adoration and devotion the Gator Nation has for him. He can do no wrong, and I suppose that is largely deserved, because he has done more for the public face of Florida football (indeed, Florida sports) than anyone alive, and I respect that. I simply don't care for the double standards that SOS gets excused from because of his extraordinary record at Florida, and from time to time, I will point that out.

    Certainly don't mean to offend anyone, and if I do, apologies.
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  13. LurkerExposed
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    Spurrier also suspended for the entire 2005 season RB Cory Boyd. Summers was the #1 RB at USC when Spurrier arrived, and Boyd was the 2nd most talented back once Summers was gone. USC had to rely on two true-freshman backs in Mike Davis (yes, there was another Mike Davis) and Bobby Wallace all season. Also, while USC was a more balanced-passing offense under Skip Holtz in '00 and '01, Lou took the offense over thereafter and converted the offense to his old Veer option. Then Spurrier comes in and once again has to revamp the offensive personnel....luckily for him he inherited an old relic from the Skip Era in former Elite 11 passer Blake Mitchell, but he also inherited an abysmal OL depth chart...


    This is the same line of reasoning that Clemson fans take regarding USC and Spurrier: it contains the same lack of in-depth analysis, and only focuses on the #s on the paper. Clemson points to USC's classes in terms of commitment #s, using them as the basis for USC and Spurrier over-signing every year. They fail to realize that a reason why those classes are often as big as they are, are that many commits each year fail to pass admissions, or are counted twice if they went the prep or JUCO route (Clemson doesn't accept JUCO prospects).

    The 2005 class was ranked 23rd. Here's just how great that class was, as an example:

    4*s Brandon Isaac, Carlos Thomas, and Mike West were the only ones of the highest-rated prospects in the class who played substantially for USC. 4* TE Jonathan Hannah stayed at USC for one year, then transferred to a JUCO and eventually NC State after recruiter Rick Stockstill took over MTSU. 4* TE Shea McKeen played as a DE for one year and appeared in 2 games. He was one of those 11 kicked off the team and eventually also wound up at NC State. 4* WR O.J. Murdock RS'd his 1st yr., caught 1 pass for 8 yds his 2nd in 2006, then was dismissed from the team after being arrested for shoplifting.

    Isaac played safety: was a JUCO that dealt with a chronic shoulder injury where it would dislocate occasionally. Played sparingly in 2005, was medical redshirted in '06 to deal with the shoulder, than played sparingly again in '07.

    Thomas played '05 as a WR which he was recruited for, then played the rest of his career as a CB, which he was a primary starter his final 3 seasons.

    Mike West was recruited as a LB out of JUCO with 3 yrs to play 3. Could never find a role on the team: played LB in '05, played WR in '06, and played DB in '07. Was never more than a reserve...

    The top players that came out of that class was ATH/WR Kinney McKinley, PK Ryan Succop, and WR-turned TE Jared Cook. And that's it. Most of the players from that class that didn't transfer out either were moved from position to position or were at best depth fodder. Compared to what Spurrier has been bringing in since 2010, overall it was a really weak class. But yes, it was ranked 23rd...


    In relation to my comments about Florida as a state for prep talent, UF competes with FSU and Miami primarily for top prep in-state talent. Then on a lesser tier, with UCF, USF, then down another tier with FIU and FAU. The "Big Three" FL schools probably compete more with major OOS college programs for the blue-chip talent than they do with the other FL schools, right? So that's essentially 3 major FL schools battling for the elite talent amongst themselves, with a degree of competition from other schools like UGA, Bama, UT, Clemson, USC, etc.

    Florida probably has at least FIVE times as much top-rated prep talent every cycle over what South Carolina produces. SC is just a small state, with an even smaller populace. They have 2 major in-state programs to fight over a 5th of what y'all's 3 major programs have to fight over. And SC still deal with those other OOS schools siphoning off their talent that the FL schools deal with: they don't give USC and CU a break because they have a small number of blue-chip prospects each cycle...

    The 2007 6th-ranked class was an anomaly. On paper for those of you that rely religiously on paper stats, it looked good. It was a huge class of 30+ and there WERE good players in it, but overall it was considered to be an underachieving class. It is also WAY off the graph curve for classes for USC. Minus that class USC has had classes under Spurrier that averaged 21st. The last 3-5 classes have averaged 18th: you say that is good enough for 7th in the SEC. Where does USC's win-loss record rank in the SEC during that time? Texas A&M has only been in the SEC for 2 years: last year they went 11-2. USC went 11-2. They both had similar ranked recruiting classes. Is that a surprise? This year TAMU will not win 10 games, much less 11. USC has already won their 10.

    And really your response wasn't relative to my comments about USC and UF comparatively in regards to the talent both programs had when Spurrier took over, and how well that talent could be rebuilt at each program: you say USC recruits "well" - 7th in the SEC. Are you trying to say that UF expects to recruit talent at around 7th in the SEC as well? What are you trying to say?


    When you say Franklin, are you talking about James Franklin the Missouri QB who plays for Pinkel? Or are you referring to Vanderbilt's head coach James Franklin? If the latter, what more has Coach Franklin done at Vanderbilt that Spurrier hasn't done at USC? Missouri deserves accolades for winning the East: USC has had one poor game every season the past 3 seasons that have kept them from winning 4 consecutive division titles, so what can you say? Missouri has done in 2013 what USC did in 2010 already and they also went 5-7 last year while Spurrier has yet to lead USC to a losing season, so again what else has Pinkel and Mizzou done that USC hasn't?
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  14. BastogneGator
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    If you give coaching credit for the 2012 season you must also assign them blame for the 2013 season in regards to turn overs
  15. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Muschamp is the head coach is he not?
  16. bbreece1
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    Have lived in the Upstate of South Carolina for about 10 years and I'm still astounded to say with no doubt that the Clemson-South Carolina has far more vitriolic hatred than Florida-FSU. There were literally Clemson fans wondering how they will make it through another year. When South Carolina dials up "Sandstorm" with the opening kickoff it may be the most electric atmosphere I've ever felt and I've gone to the National Championship Games and the SEC Championship Games.
  17. bbreece1
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    By the way, walking into the Florida-USC game I was telling the Carolina fans to just relax that we had no chance with a guy taking his first snap and all the attendant injuries. They were having nothing of it and really did not want to hear it. I'm still amazed under those circumstances how that game could have been so close.
  18. gatorr4life
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    Season ends on high for arrests, ejections during a home game


    Kathryn Varn, alligator

    The UF-FSU game brought about more arrests and ejections than any other home game so far this season. It also brought some brawls, including a post-game fight involving an FSU fan and his machete.

    According to University Police, 162 people were arrested or ejected from the game

    Later in the evening, Gainesville Police arrested an FSU fan after police reported he started a fight at a local bar and eventually charged at the manager with a machete.
  19. gtr2x
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    Georgia was always a bigger rival to Spurrier than FSU and I agree with him.
  20. chemgator
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    Exactly. If Spurrier had ever won a game against UF, then I could concede an argument for bringing him back. But what is he, 0-8 against UF? That's embarrassing. I mean, he does have a better state for producing talent than we have, so he routinely recruits only 4-star and 5-star athletes. He just can't coach 'em up anymore. And he can't game plan to save his life. Never makes half-time adjustments. Just not a winner.

    Wake me up when Spurrier's Gamecocks actually beat UF on the field.

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