Reviving the ‘Successful Surge’ Myth

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chompalot, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    • Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor x 2
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  2. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    If this is about bringing back the soft drink I'm all for it!
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  3. Emmitto
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    Emmitto VIP Member

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    Iraq is some sort of irresistible catnip for that neocon crowd. It even has the robot that replaced Dick Cheney out and about again, emboldened to rewrite history and getting someone to post a video on YouTube. W is the only one smart enough to avoid the temptation to dive back in, and that's saying a mouthful.
  4. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    The surge worked. Obama's "total retreat" did not. Now we have "advisors" on the ground with additional troops protecting our embassy.

    Obama's failure to negotiate a residual force in Iraq is just another bad decision. Our foreign policy is a wreck.
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  5. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    Iraq is what it is

    in hindsight it was a mistake to go in
    and now it would be a mistake to go back in
    we need to concentrate on total energy independence and securing our borders and getting our financial house in order
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  6. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    agreed
  7. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    I only have one issue here with what you're saying and that anybody has yet to explain. How can we obtain energy independence with the current global energy model?
  8. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    That's a good question.

    I think that when people say they want to be energy independent, what they really mean is that they want to be able to control energy costs, or at least have reasonable assurances of energy costs and not have those costs subject to a variety of external and/or uncontrollable factors.

    This will be difficult with an oil based economy. I think the only way to be "energy independent" is to radically reduce reliance on this global commodity for energy creation. Unfortunately there is no viable alternative at the moment but it should be self-evident that detaching ourselves from this volatile relationship would be beneficial to our interests.
  9. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely see it as beneficial and in fact would be inclined to check someone's temperature if the said otherwise. Getting away from the global market is the 20K lb. elephant in the room. What prevents us from exiting the global market and just producing oil for ourselves?
  10. g8orbill
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    we have more than enough available energy resources in this country to make us energy independent-we just lack a leader with a vision to take us there
  11. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Look outside the (energy industry created) box.
  12. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean no dependence on oil?
  13. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    I'm not sure that this is possible under our country's current system of governance and economic model.
  14. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Forgetting for a moment that we don't produce enough domestic oil to satisfy our needs; How would suggest a leader lead us to a self reliant and oil dependent energy policy? Block private companies' access to the global market?
  15. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    I would like to see us instead of wasting all the money on all those green companies who seem to fold and walk off with our money try something new- I found the solar streets idea very intriguing and would love to see us find a small town and use that money prezBHO gave his friends, and use it to do over a whole town with the solar streets and see if it would work

    http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml
  16. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    I nominate this for Most Conflicted Post of 2014.
  17. g8orbill
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    no we do not at this moment produce enough but if we had a leader who would allow us to harvest all the oil and NG we have under our borders we could get there in less than 10 years
  18. CHFG8R
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    Which is why I agree, in theory, with government support of companies like Solendra. Again, in theory, since that had more to do with political graft than actually investing in a viable enterprise. You have to take chances on technologies like this for the betterment of all because the simple fact is the free market isn't going to invest in anything that doesn't produce immediate gain. The space program in the 50s and 60s fits this, IMO. There was no real financial benefit to it at the time (some military, but mostly on the propaganda side), but huge benefits a decade or two afterward. Under our current economic system, there does not exist an entity that would pay today for a huge gain in 20 years which is why I see these kinds of things as a good investment on the part of the government.

    But, again, I must stress that these investments be made in vetted and at least somewhat viable enterprises not because some dude gave you a bunch of campaign donations.
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  19. g8orbill
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    you said think outside of the box-that is outside the box
  20. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting and probably true, though I'm sure others would just blame big oil. I certainly don't want to get into that, but just how we get to "energy independence" which is a highly used phrase. Do you think this means being free of the use of oil totally?

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