Religious Conservatives Not Happy With Cosmos

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by fastsix, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    How many Christians are advocating violence against gays ? Whatever the number, I'll bet it's not immeasurably higher than the number of gays advocating violence against Christians. Indeed, I wouldn't be completely shocked to learn that the number is lower.
  2. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    And not to pick exclusively on Uganda's Anglican bishops, the Catholic bishops in that country also share responsibility in having this legislation enacted.

    http://newwaysministryblog.wordpres...eath-penalty-bill-for-lesbian-and-gay-people/

  3. Lawdog88
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    Also, I do denounce practicing homosexuals from becoming clergy, or from taking communion, because they are not in right relation with God (as indeed, the orthodoxy of the church teaches). The same holds as equally true for known adulterers, thiefs, liars and false witnesses, and anybody else who is non-repentant of the sins they commit. The problem is, the other types of sinful acts can perhaps be more easily hidden from view, but that does not make them any less serious than those actively practicing homosexuality, whatsoever.

    And no, the Church I left (ECUSA) is not pro-active in discerning or dealing with any of this - as it is supposed to - and basically, does not care. That concept may a bit much for the unchurched (My gosh! The Church would have a say in our private affairs ! Impossible !), but that is the way the scriptures indicate proper discernment of vital matters - that are not just the individual parishioner's business - is supposed to work. That it does not, bears witness to that particular denomination, and to all other denominations' apostasy.

    And for the interested folks, this is my humble opinion.
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  4. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Nor would I. Christians have been denouncing/attacking/preaching against homosexuals a good deal longer than Gays have been organized and pushing back. They're angry and have centuries of resentment stoked up to fuel their retaliation against groups like the Uganda Bishops Council.
  5. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    Does this go far enough? Uganda backed down on a death penalty for gays however they will be sentenced to life in prison. Are Christians in agreement that life is appropriate for gays in Uganda?
  6. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    No
  7. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    Has there been a loud outcry from those that oppose life imprisonment for gays?
  8. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, Nana. I did some reading on this matter a couple of years ago, that's why I decided to post on the topic on this thread, but am not really current and don't know who might be objecting or actively opposing it at this time.
  9. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Uh, that's kind of a dodge on my Muslim comments. You remember, the ones with the death franchise in Africa.
  10. gatornana
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    I followed the story and was thinking I missed any follow up on opposing the bill from religious groups.
  11. gatornana
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    I wasn't dodging at all....your point was on my mind. We expect Muslims to loudly denounce the violent actions of their extremists......shouldn't we have a similar expectation of Christians to denounce this Ugandan law that imprisons for life their gay citizens?
  12. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    This CSMonitor article indicates discussion of the law will be punished so there probably won't be much open talk about it in Africa. Rick Warren, author of a Purpose Filled Life, supported the Churches a few years ago but distanced himself from the movement when it tried to enact the death penalty. There are most definitely Christians in the U.S. who bear responsibility for what is happening.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2014...s-attention-on-US-evangelical-influence-video (Sorry for the bold, it copy/pasted that way and too lazy to change it.)

    Uganda's anti-gay bill refocuses attention on US evangelical influence


    A day after Uganda’s President Yoweri Museveni signed into law a punitive bill that criminalizes homosexuality with life sentences and punishes efforts to raise or discuss gay issues, the influence of American evangelicals on the law is being raised.

    Human rights groups in East Africa for many years have pointed fingers at US evangelicals, some of whom have visited African states and advocated against homosexual behavior and rights, something that is often not a difficult sell given traditional values and views across Africa.

    But the new law has raised the ire of gay rights groups who say religious lobbying from US groups proved effective – even as US President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry opposed the bill, saying it would “complicate” relations with the US, and as the evangelicals themselves now distance themselves from the new law.


    Conservative evangelicals like Scott Lively and Lou Engle traveled to Uganda in 2009 and 2010, and Mr. Lively in particular is known to have advocated consistently and strongly against gay rights, and supported harsh laws against homosexuals. But Mr. Engle, based in Kansas City and known through his ministry The Call for backing conservative political causes, distanced himself from the Uganda bill and its punishments several years ago, saying the Ugandan church should examine its own soul.
  13. gatornana
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    I've read this before and hoped it wasn't true. This info has been out there too much to ignore. It's hard to believe Christians who value their religious freedom would deny freedom to gays in Uganda.
  14. Lawdog88
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    It is not a knee-jerk reaction to murder in the name of a small god, to condemn it in all forms. After all, if this life granted by god is not more valuable than death, those worshiping that god, are actually worshiping death. And for the record, God is not the God of death, but of life.

    As far as criminal sanctions against practicing homosexuals, yes, I think that is too far. But to avoid knee-jerk, I must qualify that by saying, that is based on my ignorance, and my cultural bias. In other words, it does sound harsh by Western standards of civility, but without knowing more about the culture, the legal rationalizations, and any qualifications for its imposition, I cannot condemn it out of ignorance.
  15. gatornana
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    Haven't we openly and without reservation condemned the executions or stonings of people in mideastern countries for violating a civil/social law, falling in love with the wrong person, a woman trying to have more freedom than she's entitled to under Muslim extremist laws......regardless of the cultural or Islamic fundamentalist laws?

    So why stop short in condemning Uganda's law to imprison for life gay citizens?
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  16. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Your 'cultural bias' plea surprises me. Justifiably killing a human being is either morally right or wrong. You might as well believe that though it is wrong to kill a baby conceived in the U.S., the 'imposition of qualifications' of babies conceived in places where life is differently valued might allow for their 'convenient disposal.'
  17. Lawdog88
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    You shouldn't be surprised. I said I was ignorant of the underlying reasons for the alleged, proposed legislation.

    Awareness of my own ignorance always gives me pause.

    But if you want to pose some sort of other hypothetical, help yourself.
  18. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    How about if a Christian group actually begins imprisoning people for life for their sins? Will you Christians speak up and stop that? Or is only murder worthy of your attention?
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  19. Lawdog88
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    "Christian groups" can do that ? Wow.
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  20. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    your comment is utterly ree dik uh luss
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