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Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by MtownGator, May 16, 2013.
Bye bye Thunder
Everyone in the city expects a Grizz -Heat Final
Game not over yet. Thunder ball down 2.
Nice come back by OKC. Brooks got to showcase his coaching skills that series.....
Wished we could have won on home court so I could have been there, but a win is a win for my guys.
You mean showcase his lack of coaching skills?
I think we learned two things from this playoffs about OKC:
A) Westbrook really is valuable. Many thought having Westbrook made Durant too unselfish and that he would blossom without him. Durant is still phenomenal and he upped his game somewhat but this is not an NBA where one player can win for a team anymore.
B) For all of us who said many months ago that the Harden trade would end in disaster..... Vindication. People will blame this on Westbrook getting injured but you had 3 legitimate stars on one team with one very good player (Ibaka) and you got rid of one of the stars to replace him with a nice role player (Martin). The fact that Westbrook went down would have made Harden all the more valuable. Even without Westbrook a team of Harden and Durant make it to the Western Conference finals if not the NBA Finals (they don't beat the Heat of course).
Grizzlies are one of those teams every year that finishes as a 7-8 seed, but then comes to the playoffs and totally mans up to crunch time. I thoroughly enjoy watching them play.
not so sure memphis gets by the spurs
Well, if I say that, someone here is going to tell me how he really isn't that bad of a coach.
Or put you on ignore so I don't have to put up with you baiting me like a teenager.
I tend to agree with both. One of the reasons Durant can be so unbelievably efficient is because he has an aggressive point guard collapsing the defense with his dribble drive penetration and forcing opposing coaches to game plan as much for their second option as their first.
On Harden, I still kind of see two sides to it since he went on the bad advice of his agent and played hardball, even though he wanted to stay in OKC. But the most surefire formula for winning hoops now is to have three quality all-league players to carry the offense with a defensive minded big to protect the rim and anchor the pick and roll defense. If one of those stars is the defensive big, all the better. OKC had exactly that and traded one of the stars away, hoping Ibaka would fill the void. He was great during the regular season, but could not get it done as the second scorer on the team when Webstrook got hurt.
On Brooks, bleh. That team isn't very good without Westbrook and with a high volume Durant. It just isn't. They are more like Anthony's Knicks or Nuggets than they are even Lebron's Cavs. Too slow in the frontcourt, poor floor spacing, and a fairly short perimeter rotation. Not sure what the quality coaching prospects on this board want Brooks to do. Go small and he is stuck with Jackson, Fisher, Safalosha, Martin, and Durant for four positions. Go big and you play into Memphis's hands. They had no one who could guard Conley and didn't have enough bodies on the perimeter to go small and force Memphis to limit Gasol or Randolph. Plus, Memphis isn't a bad team at all. They have playoff experience, they are a very tough matchup for any team that can't go small, and they have probably the most underrated player in the league in Gasol anchoring them on both ends and making the two bigs game work.
I guess Thibodeau was a terrible coach last year when he lost Rose, too, and dropped to a much worse Philly team.
All I'll say is having Durant go 1-on-5 wasn't working and I didn't see Brooks try much else.
I'm not baiting you. I think Thibs is a great coach, but a terrible player manager. He berates his players and rides them so hard that they get injured or are too tired to win series.
The Thunder probably weren't going to win this series, but they had a chance with as close as they were able to keep it every game. There were some things they could have done, but didn't. The pin down screen that they use with Westbrook setting it for Durant was never tried with Jackson. Instead, it was Durant taking it up the court and trying to initiate the offense with 3 guys hanging on him. Or it was Jackson bringing it up and Durant standing on the wing waiting to get the ball.
I'm trying to find the numbers, but they must be on pay for sites. During the daily dime live chat last night, they said that lineups with Ibaka and Perkins together were -.3 points per possession worse while on the floor together, worst in the playoffs. Ibaka and Collinson were +.3 ppp better, one of the best in playoffs. Yet Perkins continued to get heavy minutes and Collinson and Ibaka rarely played together since Collinson is the bench guy and Perkins is the starter.
He also kept putting Collinson on Randolph, who he obviously can't guard since he was fouling him at a rate of about once every 3 possessions. It seems like there's some kind of loyalty thing going on, but since they are going to amnesty Perkins now, why? Perkins is a turnover machine and was so especially against Memphis. He lost 38.2% of his possessions to turnovers. That's by far the highest in the NBA.
The other is playing Fisher. You could even hear him praising Fisher last night. In an earlier game, he said Fisher was one of their best defenders. The guy is a terrible defender. A lot of the wide open 3s they gave up in both series were his fault. He's so slow it's comical. He was also given free reign to shoot. Yes, he was hot in game 2, but they lost that game anyway. It culminated last night in him going 2 of 10 on 3's not affected by a towel he never saw.
There are very few guys you want taking 10 3's in an NBA game and Fisher is near the bottom of that list. There are also not many guards you want playing 30 minutes in an elimination game including all 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. A 38 year old slow chucker is not one of them.
The absurd amount of minutes given to Perkins and Fisher is entirely on the coach.
Agree that they had no one for Collinson, but Thabo would have been their best bet in a line-up with Durant, Collison, Ibaka, and Jackson.
OKC needs to upgrade their center position badly and the low usage players had a problem increasing their usage and staying efficient. People point to Ibaka but he started to come along as the series continued and Durant was sliding down. It is tough to score and facilitate consistently. I think the guy that really hurt them was sefalosha.
To be honest, I only watched two second halves during that entire series, so my comments are restricted to what I actually saw. And what I saw was not Durant going one on five, but them attempting to run the offense through him as facilitator so as to open up looks for others. Unfortunately, there was a lid on the basket for Ibaka and Martin was sort of up and down the entire postseason. No one out there could create his shot on a regular basis other than Reggie Jackson and that probably isn't going to win you four games with Gasol and Randolph clogging the paint. They tried to get some easier points in transition, since that is an area where they could take advantage of the slow footed Memphis froncourt, but you just can't win with a transition team in the playoffs since it is predicated on missed shots and slow recoveries, none of which you can control.
But I honestly am less concerned with disagreement over Brooks's coaching style (I'm not related to him or anything and I am no OKC fan personally) than I am with posters who feel the need to start piss fests through incendiary passive aggressive comments with little interest in discussing hoops. I am not here for **** showing contest, but to talk basketball.
Your first point is right on. Anyone who felt the Thunder would be better without Westbrook just doesnt understand how good RW is. The guy is one of the top talents in the NBA.
Your second point is inaccurate statistically. The Thunder were more efficient offensively and defensively this season and won more games. In fact the trio of RW, KD and K. Martin when on the floor together was statistically the most efficient trio in the NBA this year even higher than last years trio of RW, KD and Harden when playing together. Now if you were to say they could have handled the RW injury better with Harden then I completely agree. He is a better individual player than Martin and would have provided them more of what RW brings to the table, no question.
Brooks really did not do a good job of adjusting when RW went down. To many Iso's from the top with Durant and not enough movement with other guy's. His hands were tied to some extent, they were better with Collison in the game instead of Perkins, but Collinson couldn't stay out of foul trouble.
One statistic I saw going into last night which really stood out was there have been 5 last 5 minute stanza's in that series including game 4 overtime. That's 25 possible crunch time minutes, of that K. Martin only played 11 minutes and had 0 fg attempts. That's on the head coach. Brooks never really adjusted his line up when RW went down. Perkins was horrible in this series with a terrible plus minus yet he continued to get the start at both the beginning of games and halves. K. martin who was up and down for sure in all the playoffs still was their second best scorer with RW out and was a top 5 three point shooter in the NBA this year. At the very least he needs to be on the floor in crunch time, statistically they were better with him in the game all season do to the spacing his shooting provides. IMO, they needed to run Durant off more screens in the post or elbow. They also needed to feed K. Martin the ball earlier in the clock and run some high pick and roll with him and Ibaka or even Durant. Over the last three years, Martin was one of the most efficient pick and roll offensive players in the league.
Even though I think Brooks could have done a much better job of adjusting, I also happen to know guy's like Durant, Ibaka and RW are not the easiest player's to deal with. Durant wants his touches and often time's demands the ball immediately after a defensive rebound so that he can dictate the Off. Sometime's that wasn't Brooks's call.
I think the Spurs might have something to say about that.
I am definitely saying this in bold. I will also point out that playoff basketball is a different animal than the regular season and Harden is a better player this year than he was last year (and like Durant/Westbrook will continue to improve). Harden is a better fit for the team than Martin and Martin may be gone this offseason. It was an awful trade.