Power Conference Rules

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by corpgator, Aug 9, 2014.

  1. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe there's no thread on either here or Swamp Gas. I think this has been a long time coming and good change. More talent is going to be concentrated in these schools now though, since guys will be more reluctant to go to a small school to make a name for themselves when they'll be getting a lot less.

    The agent thing is good, I think. They should just approve the good ones and let the kids sign early. Might as well have it all out in the open.
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  2. sixoburn
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    sixoburn Active Member

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    I would just make life simple. Let the colleges pay the players whatever they want, and completely do away with amateur status.
  3. GatorPlanet
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    GatorPlanet Well-Known Member

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    There are good and bad things here. Scholarship athletes are of course already compensated in a big way, but I guess the judge figured they need cash too. Anyway, the NCAA is almost certain to appeal, but the decision apparently moves forward and is the new law to be implemented right away, appeal or not.
    The NCAA needs to be smart and prevent this from setting off bidding wars among the wealthier schools. They should have seen the problem they were creating by merchandising and cashing in on the images of players. How many Tebow jerseys did UF sell? Did no one see a problem there?

    Pay is capped in this decision at $5ooo per year, but I see the competition coming.
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  4. sixoburn
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    sixoburn Active Member

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    The problem with using royalties to pay individuals is that the amount of money made by endorsements is unbelievably skewed towards the top athletes, and especially in football is weighted towards QBs, and a lesser extent RBs and WRs. I don't think you will ever see an OL on the cover of a video game.

    The NCAA will fight like hell because once the payers are actually getting paid, their whole "ohhh... they are just students who also happen to play sports" defense starts looking even more ridiculous.

    I think bidding wars among the wealthier schools would be good for the "student" athletes, and would be a welcome outcome of this decision.
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  5. Osiris_DPM
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    Osiris_DPM Premium Member

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    I can't believe anyone would think a bidding war is a good thing. It would end the parity that makes things like the NCAA Tournament so great.
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  6. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    It would be the end of me watching college basketball also.

    Actually, my wife would agree that's a good thing. :cool:
  7. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    Yup. I'll be done with college sports.
  8. GatorPlanet
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    GatorPlanet Well-Known Member

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    Since we've finally crossed this line, there's no going back. Therefore, I believe it's critical that the NCAA not only caps the earnings of each player at $5000, but also requires the earnings of each player at $5000. Regardless of school. Regardless of position. Regardless of scholarship. Regardless of sport. This will be the only way to ensure that the elite programs don't overwhelm the rest of the nation's programs. If Nick Satan had the opportunity to outbid other programs for an elite running back by giving the kid $1 million dollars, you know he'd do it and the Bama boosters would be all too happy to find the money. At the same time, if we required FAMU's 5th-string blocking dummy to get the same $5K as an elite Bama running back, it would ensure at least some semblance of parity and fairness in college sports. Furthermore, limit all schools to an equal number of players on the roster, and make ALL schools contribute to a fund to be dispersed equally for the payment of each. This will keep Nick Satan from having his 85 scholarship guys, plus another 50 paid walk-ons.
  9. UF24ou14
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    UF24ou14 Well-Known Member

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    NCAA can't cap the earnings. The judge did that. NCAA screwed the pooch by allowing the use of player images to make millions without having the players' permission to use those images. Nowhere else can you use an image of someone for a profit without compensating the individual or getting the individual's permission. This is now beyond the scope of NCAA power since the courts were forced to make the decision for them.
  10. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to US Weekly and all those other tabloid rags.
  11. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    The judge capped the earnings, who knows why though. That will be appealed and uncapped. Nowhere in labor can you cap someone's earnings.
  12. UF24ou14
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    UF24ou14 Well-Known Member

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    Tell what to the tabloids?
  13. sixoburn
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    sixoburn Active Member

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    I think you are wrong on two counts. The first is that the NCAA tournament is a single elimination tournament, so there will always be unpredictable outcomes no matter what. The second is that in college basketball there are really only 5-7 blue blood programs, and that is a big advantage in recruiting. Revenue sharing among colleges is actually fairly even (the SEC shares TV revenue) and the idea that Nick Saban can just go out and buy everyone doesn't really hold up because Alabama isn't the athletic department with the top revenue (it is number 3 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/). Right now cheating is probably rampant in most sports, and cannot be stopped because both the NCAA probably doesn't want it to stop (do you really think the NCAA wants to drop the hammer on Kentucky in basketball or Alabama in football?) and the NCAA has no real investigative powers. If a coach is willing to hang out with a guy like world wide wes, then it gives them an unfair advantage over a coach who plays by the rules. If you allow the rules to include paying the players, then you even the playing field and it is harder for cheaters to prosper.

    When you say "I don't think athletes should be paid" you are basically saying "I want people to work hard for my enjoyment yet not see monetary benefits for their work". Sure, you get free tuition, but if you graduated with a degree in accounting and your first job said "we will give you an $80k package, $40k in money, and $40k towards a masters in archeology" you would probably say "I don't want a masters in archeology, give the extra $40k in money". Some students take advantage of the college degree and some don't, but just give them all money and let them spend it what they want, like a normal job.

    The NCAA system is especially heinous because not only does it not pay players their value for what they do, but it intentionally shuts down how much time they can get with their coaches, which stunts their development and, "surprisingly'" makes it harder for them to leave the NCAA and become professional. Chris Walker is in school working towards a degree he will probably never finish taking classes that will most likely be useless to him. What should Chris Walker be doing every day? Working out with Billy Donovan. Billy Donovan is a great, great basketball coach the idea that Chris Walker couldn't work under him for a semester because his high school grades weren't good enough, and then is severely restriction during the off-season is crazy. If Chris Walker worked with Billy D every day from last July until the NBA draft, it is much more likely that he is NBA ready getting paid serious money right now on an NBA team. How is that fair to him? Somehow I don't think the NCAA cares.

    I don't know how flexible the NCAA is going to be with the rule changes, but the Big East is not one of the power 5 and is clearly going to get left out. If I was the big east, I would try to get my own exception (I don't know if the NCAA would let this) or simply break away, and say that there will be no restrictions on how often a coach can work with players/the team, and further do away with any sort of academic standards at the conference level. If the individual schools want to enforce things they are free to. In the absence of the money of the Big 5, they can sell the conference to athletes as the best possible place to develop their skills as a recruiting advantage, and hopefully the Big 5 follow suit.

    A professional athlete only has a certain number of years to make money, and everything they do during that time should be focused on maximizing the amount of money the can get from playing a sport. The idea that college fans are acting in the "best interest" of the athlete by trying to deny them their earnings is crazy, and they are selfishly enforcing poverty on players so that you can uphold a ridiculous ideal of a student athlete. I think if people really like the idea of a true student-athlete playing hard, then they should go watch the championship matches of intramural sports, and let kids who are making serious money for their universities should be able to benefit from their hard work (like a person does at every other job, in the form of a pay check).
  14. Singaporegator
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    Singaporegator Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that at some point the Student Athlete is no longer a student. I don't have any problem with that if the individual plays on a pro team in some kind of minor league for a team that has copyrighted the name "FloridaGators" but includes a disclaimer that states that the basketball organization is in no way related to or controlled by the University of Florida. If, on the other hand, the player is enrolled in UF and maintains satisfactory progress towards a degree then he has the right to play on a University sponsored team. The first model would kill the goose. As I, and probably most of College Basketball fans would lose interest pretty quickly if the team was not affiliated with the school . The second model requires that the athlete be a student. He or she is certainly entitled to make as much money as the market will pay him for his time in his part time job of stacking groceries or playing basketball and he certainly should reap any rewards he or she can from marketing his image, but he must remain good standing with the school. This means no UNC phantom courses and the like. The coach might have something to say about how much of his time he wanted to allocate to mentoring individual players and the University could negotiate a cut on marketing but those are different stories. Under those circumstances I would be happy to continue to root for the Gators. I might feel a bit less if a connection because I would realize that their experience, at least the stars, would be very different than the one I remember as a student but at least they would be walking around the same campus. Besides, their experience is already waaay different than mine, mores the pity.
  15. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    Most people who think this is a good development must believe that the number of people who would quit following professional college basketball is negligible. I'm not so sure about that.

    Maybe, the players will achieve their pro status and get the enjoyment of taking the profits off 3,000-person crowds at the O'Dome - if there are any profits left over after the players make sure the utilities and O'Dome staff have been paid. And, those sponsorship contracts? Maybe, those dried up with the TV broadcasts. But, they still get a few hundred bucks a month off t-shirt sales! That would be poetic justice to me. :cool:

    I think basketball will survive these changes as one of the U.S.'s major popular sports, but maybe organized more along the lines of how it's done in Europe. I've followed the NBA all my life, including when I didn't have Gator players to follow in the NBA. So, I'd probably keep watching the NBA regardless. But, I think the college & NBA games currently help to boost each other's popularity, so I think the popularity of the sport would suffer some.

    On the other hand, I don't think the game of football will long survive professional college football as one of our major sports. But, yes, intramural flag football will always be there I'm happy to say (as a veteran of the league) :cool:
  16. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    Shaky opening paragraph IMO (not just because of the UK reference:)), but you really hit your stride from the 2nd on. Made some good points and made them well.
  17. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    Using people's images without their permission for profit. Never understood how its legit.
  18. UF24ou14
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    UF24ou14 Well-Known Member

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    Even they can't use a person's image soley to promote their product. If it is somewhat considered news, then they can use an image of someone.
  19. themistocles
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    themistocles Well-Known Member

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    As with everything, this is anything but simple. The Buddha called the phenomenon Dependent Coorigination, 2500 years ago, and his description remains the best I have seen when compared to any Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Palentology, Sociology, Psychology, Business or Spiritual description/explanation that I have seen, which, by the way, is a rather massive number.

    For wealthy student Athletes like David Lee or Noah, the fact that they got no spending money is quite irrelevant, because their families made sure they had whatever they needed. However, for the typically poor student athletes that dominate college football and basketball teams, when surrounded by the typically affluent students at Flagship Universities, not having any spending money to buy say a Pizza or some Jewelry for a girl they want to impress, is quite simply unjust. So, in this way, this is quite a good thing. $412 per month won't pay for much Jewelry, but it will at least support most students' Pizza & Beer addictions.

    One thing this won't have any effect on is offering the parents of Top Prospects nearby high salaried jobs to bring the recruits in.

    And, of course, the Bidding War phenomenon will assuredly continue to occur, but at the very least, even at the less wealthy universities, the players will have a bit of money.

    I am all in favor of this, although I am not sure about straight out pay.

    You know if this evolves into what sixoburn advocated above, then the best teams will once again be fielded by such as Harvard and Stanford, because they have so very much money available to them. Public Universities simply can't compete with the Elite, Wealthy Private colleges. Think about Vandy and Duke Fielding not only among the best basketball teams, but also the best football teams in respectively the SEC and ACC. WOW - turnaround time is here!!!
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  20. sixoburn
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    sixoburn Active Member

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    I don't think how wealthy your family is should matter with compensation. David Lee and Joakim Noah earned UF lots of money and didn't get paid, and they deserve a piece of that.

    This is extremely unlikely. Harvard has a $32 billion endowment, which is nuts, but if the president came out and said "so, we are going to spend a billion on NCAA athletics" the alumni would (rightly) go crazy. At more elite private schools they care less about sports and more about academics, and I don't think anyone is giving money to harvard with the hopes of winning the BCS. You have to think this is just the tip of the iceberg, because there is really no way this doesn't repeatedly end up in court. Accounting firms coming together, saying all new graduates had to work for 3 years for $10k before they can actually go pro would be amazing at holding down salaries, and for this reason it is very illegal. In the news recently there is a case where silicon valley tech companies have to pay a large settlement because they agreed to not poach each others employees.

    I think fears of massive inequality amongst major conference teams are overblown. The SEC divides TV revenue evenly, and this is going to keep Alabama from really getting away (and keep in mind Saban won't be there forever). If we had a league where Texas, FSU, UF, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Alabama, LSU, Notre Dame and Oklahoma are all "tier 1 teams", that is 10 teams, which is a lot for any league. "Tier 2" teams like Texas A&M, Georgia, Tenn, Miami, etc are still quite good, too. Revenue sharing will prevent any of those teams from really pulling away, and the difficulty of evaluating HS talent and coaching transitions will keep any one team from really dominating for extended periods of time. If it does go to a free-for-all where colleges can pay the athletes whatever, the exciting thing will be to see what happens in college basketball. Right now Texas doesn't have much history, but they have loads of money. You can try to lure top recruits with fancy weight rooms and a highly paid coach, but those are more second order things. Once Texas can just flat out pay the players, then things get interesting. However, the good people of Texas (greatly) prefer football to basketball, so there is surely a limit on how much they are willing to spend on their basketball team.

    Strangely enough, I actually think the NCAA is the best long-term starting point for the ideal athletic scenario. I currently live in England and in talking with the locals and some Canadians, if you want to go pro in soccer or hockey you usually finish HS, enter into a minor league system and just hope for the best. If you don't make it, you could be in your early to mid 20s with a HS degree, which isn't idea. I think my ideal scenario would be a modified form of what baseball is like in the US. If you want to go pro right out of high school, you can do that and there is a farm system to help you (this is different than the NBA pre one and done in that you don't have to be a ridiculous talent to play in the farm system). However, if you want to go to college and play, you can also do that. I would prefer if there was a players union for colleges so that they could represent the players interests, but the choice between full time paid baseball and more part time college, but still with the very real possibility of going pro, is the best we can hope for. My canaidan friend said that some Canadians actually send their kids to US colleges for college hockey for this reason. As you can expect, going to a college and playing slows your development from a full time minor league job, but you are hedging your bets some if the NHL doesn't come calling.

    Unfortunately, minor league systems for the NBA and NFL don't really exist, probably due to the popularity of college basketball and football. Minor league systems are generally not profitable, and I really doubt either of those leagues are interested in creating a new league (NFL) or improving the D-league, when they have college to do it for them. I am not a lawyer, but if I was a judge I would give the NCAA much more leeway in what they do in the case of baseball because the kids are all choosing to go to college, and not forced to go in the cases of football and basketball.

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