Pope: Who Am I To Judge Gays

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    certainly a different take

    personally, its nice to see what I consider the one and true message of Jesus (love they neighbor as yourself) being expressed here

    treat all people with the same love, care, and dignity, you would like to be treated yourself, and if there truly is a God that judges, leave the judgment to them

    unlike our laws that mirror biblical commandments (thou shall not kill, etc), homosexuality between consenting adults is not harming another


    Link
  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Of course, in the same remarks, he said that homosexuality is a sin from which the men entering priesthood need to repent, i.e. confess, to have it forgiven and forgotten by God. That didn't seem to draw yours or Huffpo's attention, can't imagine why.

    The difference between Francis and Benedict here is only whether or not homosexuality -- repented or not -- contraindicates a man's suitability for the priesthood in and of itself. Not whether homosexuality is a sin or not. Benedict's take was that a homosexual man shouldn't be a priest, Francis is saying that a homosexual man who has confessed his sin and amended his life is as suited to be a priest as any other sinner.
  3. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    --there may yet be a chance for the 9/11 NYFD Chaplain to receive sainthood status.

    Father Mychal Judge, the chaplain of NYFD who passed away on 9/11 during the course of his going into the twin towers to give last rights and to help survivors get out of the burning building. Had been a recovering alcoholic(over 20 years of sobriety). He was also celibate per requirements of Catholic Church. He was however very supportive of gay movement in Catholic Church and had stated he himself leaned towards being gay if he weren't celibate. His stance on homosexuality had for years been a major obstacle to him receiving sainthood status since his death. Vast majority of other requirements are already on record(including 2 documented miracles attributed with him as the channel for the miracles occurring). There was brief effort for the canonization of Father michal during the two years following 9/11. There has been renewed efforts that are more widespread for his canonization that started back in 2011
  4. QGator2414
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    I think people confuse preaching the Word of God and judging. We are all sinners and it appears the pope recognizes that as most Christians do.

    The media IMO would have people think otherwise...
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  5. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    you are probably correct in saying most Christians know the difference between preaching and judging(and even worse--condemnation of others with different pov)

    sadly, that is hard to see on this and other message boards, media, etc where the majority are silent and the loud mouthed extremists(right and left) preach, pass judgement, and condemn most anybody of different point of view.

    hopefully America's silent majority of moderates asserts itself in politics and elsewhere and maybe Aemrica will get off the see saw of ultra-right vs ultra lib that has screwed up America over the last few decades
  6. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I see merit in both Benedict's and Francis' approaches to the question. Benedict's stance is surely at least in some part a response to the abuse scandal, as well. And, what's more, it's predicated on the notion that -- yes, we can confess our sins and have them forgiven by God and forgotten at our judgment, but it doesn't mean all mortal byproducts are gone. I mean, if you are a profligate debtor and confess the sins related and are forgiven, you're still going to be a bad credit risk.

    I think Francis' position is perfectly legitimate as well, though.

    This is, what, the 3rd or 4th time already the media has tried to play up something almost wonkishly narrow in its scope as being a fundamental doctrine change since Francis became Pope?
  7. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    He is also against gay marriage, which is worth noting i think.


    http://www.advocate.com/politics/re...is-benedict-jointly-condemn-same-sex-marriage
  8. DeanMeadGator
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    Who am I to judge anyone? Do I wish to be judged?
  9. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    Love the sinner, hate the sin has been the mantra of the church for centuries. Not always practiced, but something it aspires to nonetheless.

    Forgiveness is another pillar of the catholic church. You know, turn the other cheek, first to throws stones etc.etc. The whole concept has gotten the church in hot water in regard to homosexual priests caught sinning. Big time.

    In summary, you can be gay and be a priest, or you can be straight and be a priest. In both cases you will practice celibacy. Sometimes it works, other times you have priests covering for other priests doing despicable things under the gaze of forgiveness.
  10. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Who are the 1% homosexuals that think they can change and judge we, the majority of the people?
  11. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Were only the cops without guns, not the judge. Bible 101. The Bible places more emphasis on not judging hypocritically, which Jesus made pretty clear. Iron sharpens iron.
  12. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    so judge, but not if you are hypocritical about it?
  13. g8tr80
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    By the way. This pope is kind of cool. I hope he sticks around awhile and I hope we pay some attention. Three million at a sermon. The guy has an audience.
  14. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, the ones you just judged yourself in that post?
  15. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Homosexual behavior is still a sin.
  16. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    You know not what you speak of. The activist-gays are disgusting creatures. And they are most certainly a "special interest group." The same special interests that Obama promised several times not to beholden to. Another LIE by Obama and the leftists don't even give a damn.
  17. oragator1
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    I had said this would happen months ago, it's not a massive shift but a more basic one towards demphasizing it without compromising their values.
  18. gator34654
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    gator34654 Well-Known Member

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    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


    From Romans chapter 1.

    The Bible is consistent when it calls homosexuality a sin. You can't pick or choose scripture to suit your liking. Homosexuality is a sin, but so is murder, stealing, gossiping, ect. The Bible is clear that those who live in sin, make sin the habit of their life will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

    16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


    Galatians chapter 5.

    And about judging. The Bible does not prohibit speaking the truth in love. Some want to say don't preach, just accept God's love. You would be wrong, Paul and other early evangelist certainly spoke the truth and did not mince words. People need to know the truth that they may repent and follow God with all their heart. It's wrong to know the truth and be silent thus letting people go down the path of destruction.

    One last thing, there is a perception I think, that Christians hate or look down on homosexuals. Its not true as a whole imo. God loves us all and Jesus died for us all. I don't care who it is, if you're living in sin and are not repenting of it, you are at odds with God.
  19. squigator
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    Instead of ignoring its gay problem the catholic church is de-emphasizing it?
  20. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    He said what I have always felt as a Catholic so good for him.

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