Pope Francis: Capitalism is “a new tyranny”

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chompalot, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Funny.

    But 'tough love' is quite simply more consistent with REALITY, than neo-libby pretenses of utopianism.

    While providing a 'security net' of some sort is a noble idea, it does not negate the reality of consequences for our actions, nor the power of incentive (i.e.--carrot & stick)....and even the most nobly stated attempts to insulate folks from the consequences of their actions (or in actions), must contemplate and be balanced against the greater more fundamental principle of private property rights and human dignity (to say nothing of the political ulterior motivations for those proclaimed pretenses, and the historically proven propensity for those in authority, to abuse their authority in supposedly effecting the 'security net').
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  2. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    Each panel is an accurate depiction of the righties' war on the Christmas spirit.
  3. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Before I can respond what is "your" definition of "the Christmas spirit"?

    Otherwise carry on with the party line.
  4. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    Well, think of how Scrooge acted during Christmas or how the GOP has been acting recently...than act the opposite and you'll have the Christmas spirit.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  5. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Sure. The private sector is forced to play the roll of Scrooge, because they have been looted by the government, who gets to play San'y Clause, with all their confiscated wealth...

    ...and the real UE remains unsustainably astronomic. :eek:

    (yeah I know...a miniscule uptick in the last jobs report...happens every 4th quarter...Christmas giveth...and the [Arab] spring taketh away....).
  6. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    If the Pope was condemning Obama, you'd think that Limbaugh and his ilk would actually be praising him (you know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend), not calling him a Marxist? Then again, while I personally think Limbaugh is the poopy scum left on the rim of a toilet bowl, I can't say he's completely wrong on this.

    I have read about the Pope's defenders denying it, but much of his exhortation dealing with economics and poverty seems to me to have pretty clear influences from Marx. Don't take this to mean that I think the Pope is championing communism--not at all, but Marx's writing on the nature of capitalism and it's negative consequences permeates this document, imo.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  7. asuragator
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    I know, thanks. Though to be clear, if I "was", it was only to the extent that under capitalism, wealth flowing to one person flows away from everyone else, which generally speaking would include the poor (most of whom are working poor, fwiw). In any case, I don't have any viable fix and like I said, I am not anti-capitalist, but such a concentration of wealth is damaging society through increasing inequality.
  8. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    This is only true if the pie is finite.
  9. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    First, I haven't heard Rush's actual comments on it, but I did hear him--what seemed like back peddling about it, a bit (must confess, I just caught a blurb, so not much context to it)--but basically saying he was relying on someone's translation of it, or something along those lines.

    Second, concur to an extent, re. Marx and the Pope's letter. But hey, he is Argentinian. Marxism is extremely popular with the Argentines (e.g.--Che Guevarra = Argentinian). So it oughtn't come as too much of a surprise. And again, I don't deny PF's leftist bent--just saying the letter doesn't say nearly as much as so many have made it out to say--i.e.--not an attack on capitalism per se, but identifying some of its more conspicuous faults, and calling the faithful to action--to remedy those faults--without spelling out how.

    NB/fwiw/imho: I personally think his counsel at the Vat., probably edited the hell out of that letter before it went out--with his approval of course, but I suspect he probably had some assistants in his ear, telling him "...no, your Holiness...this line right here might be going a bit too far...it might be 'misunderstood'...and that one....and that one... and this section..."--and he probably acquiesced--albeit begrudgingly. Which would explain why the letter is so light on actual solutions, and mostly just platitudinal calls for action, or subtle suggestions. (Like 'hint hint').

    Third--well, without rehashing prior posts, I'll just say it was a small portion of the 'letter', and the letter's primary purposes (and audience), leave even those portions, imo, significantly more benign than what folks seem to read into it--or rather, want to read into it--perhaps even in part, due to the above (my speculation, that is).
  10. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    If that's your definition I guess Joe Biden or Al Gore can play Scrooge in the next remake of A Christmas Carol!
    They are real good a telling everybody that they should give up their money yet sure are not very generous with their own!

    Perhaps you should look at the "charitable giving rates of Pubs vs Dems....

    "data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=0
  11. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    Nice deflection, but that doesn't come close to making up for cutting food stamps, trying to deny access to quality affordable health care for the less fortunate, fighting a minimum wage increase, and not extending unemployment benefits for those who lost their job through no fault of their own during a time where there are three people seeking a job for each job available.

    Furthermore, if you scrutinize where the Pubs donations go to, you'll find that much of it isn't going towards the poor. A lot of it goes to things like the opera or Harvard University, etc.
  12. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    LOL! You're actually being serious!
  13. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    btw: Why aren't you clamoring for lower unemployment, rather than longer unemployment BENEFITS?!?!?

    With all due respect sir, your party's polices suck.
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  14. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Here's a suggestion--check your solutions:

    Rather than more food stamps, how about less people dependent on them?

    Instead of longer UE beny's, how about lower UE?

    Instead of 'more affordable HC for the less fortunate', how about we focus on making the 'less fortunate', more capable of affording quality health care?

    Instead of 'mortgage relief,' how about we focus on getting folks better positioned to perform under mortgages?

    Your post betrays the fundamental flaw of loser-liberal thinking.

    Damn, we need a change of leadership...
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  15. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Talk about deflection, you say Pubs are like Scrooge I show you where Dems are far closer to Scrooge than Pubs. Fixed where Pubs money goes in buckets full more than the Dems.

    Then you try moving the goal posts with a bunch of Democrat talking points. Find some new material man.

    How about this let's give UE benefits for life, Food stamps for all and double how much is given out, make the minimum wage $30 an hour and give everybody all the free healthcare for life, will that fix all of your perceived flaws that make the Pubs like Scrooge? My suggestions are obviously in jest and sound ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than yours. The difference is that you believe that drivel that has been poured down your throat by your Socialist/Marxist heroes!

    If you took all the money and wealth in the US and divided it up equally, within 10 years the divide would pretty much match what we see now. I'll type slow.

    YOU CAN'T INCREASE A PERSONS PROSPERITY BY SYSTEMATICALLY TAKING FROM ONE GROUP AND GIVING TO ANOTHER.

    40 yrs and TRILLIONS of dollars on the war on poverty have proven that.
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  16. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Fundamental flaw trying to reason with someone who doesn't believe people can make it without a umpire in DC calling the plays. When you think about it the Pubs are more confident it the very people the Dems claim to care about.
  17. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    If the Pope read the stuff posted on here by the right, he'd be shaking his head...then he'd be compelled to pray for their souls and that they'd learn to live by Jesus' example.
  18. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, man it's a sin to think that people can help themselves and each other without blind faith of a Governmental Santa Claus handing out fairness.


    FYI Jesus was pretty harsh when I came to the slackers.
  19. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Removes very conservative cardinal from council of bishops:

  20. tideh8rGator
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    Socialism and Christianity are incompatible.

    Socialism violates the most central tenet of both Judaism and Christianity... it removes God from the throne of human affairs and places collectivist man, in the form of human government, in His place. It basically uses the expedient of human force, compulsion, and "mandate" (where have we heard THAT word before) to allow certain men to exalt themselves as "gods" over other men, even to the confiscation of their subjects' worldly goods.

    Foolish people will swallow this, of course, if it masquerades as "compassion", "fairness", "justice", etc., but those who can discern see the evil behind it.

    Socialism is in reality the most Satanic form of society known to man.

    Christianity teaches the individual soul-liberty to give of one's goods VOLUNTARILY and without guile, to those who are in need. This is on a higher moral plane by far than the cold coercion of statism.

    The Bible portrays God as a Conservative, and Satan and his followers as statist liberals. That is a conundrum very few liberals want to accept but it is true.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
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