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Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by RayGator, May 14, 2014.
Right next to Danny's picture!!!
And derelict rapists don't win affection of any way, shape, or form from anyone with a conscience and the least bit of a moral compass.
True MyakkaGator. I don't understand how people can become so jaded towards the reality of criminal behavior. Sports have become far too important when you are willing to accept a culture of illegal behavior in exchange for championships. I've been on message boards for years and never have I seen a gator fan say anything like these two quotes I read on warchant:
"he is the butt of many, many jokes. Seems like more than enough punishment to me. What other price should he pay? Kick him out of school? Ban him from sports teams? Cut off a hand? Life in prison?"
"His decision making off the field is not the best, but on the field it has been spectacular. No, FSU is not kicking him out of school. He is the biggest reason FSU won the NC last year. He is a field general with uncanny wit, and a freshman. Yes, he had plenty of weapons around him. However, we have not had a leader like that in a long time. Barring him killing someone, he is not leaving the team by force. He may be free will, but not by force.
No, choirboys don't win championships. Didn't under Meyer in Gainesville, and god knows they didn't at Miami during their run. Part of life, if you want to be on top, then deal with the baggage it carries. You don't get your cake and eat it too sometimes. Life goes on, but I hope JW going forward realizes that he has to make better decisions off the field."
Truly disgusting. I also think, however, that we as gator fans need to avoid saying things like "the gift that keeps on giving" when referring to Jameis. Political corruption is not something to ever be celebrated even when it happens at a rival school. If we celebrate every time a player commits a crime at a rival school, then we are hypocrites.
One way to see if gator football has become more important than justice is to ask yourself which would you prefer? A morally upright championship winning QB at FSU or Jameis at FSU? I'd prefer the former. If you find yourself preferring the latter, then you may need to take a long look in the mirror and examine yourself.
Heard Barkley's take this morning (clip from Doug Gottleib show). "Just a damn idiot. That's all I can say."
And, FWIW, next to Charlie Ward, Derrick Brooks, Weinke, Dunn, etc. Just saying. They've had their share of quality guys.
I went to Warchant and read the six-pages on the Crab Legs Incident. I have to say, there were A LOT of Seminole fans who were fed up with Winston and think he is a moron. Some who even said it's time to consider kicking him off the team. I see a couple things quoted on our thread from the exact same thread that I'm alluding to and I would say the majority of the posts from Seminole fans were ones of exasperation. Just to be fair.
I think many of them know they have an idiot at quarterback and as the face of FSU football and they are not happy with it. I truly was hoping to see the majority of them backing him blindly so that I could hate them more, but the contrary (for the most part) was true. Below is the link.
Whether that thread is representative of all of FSU fans is of course uncertain. But it's probably in the ballpark.
Okay, let's not get crazy. There is a large, monstrous line between a common thug (even an alleged rapist) than a serial killer.
I am no JW sympathizer. I think he is the scum of the earth but let's not make comparisons to a once in a lifetime thug like AH.
I'm not sure Weinke belongs in that group-maybe not a bad guy but the others were all-world.
But even including Weinke, the last season played for any of these guys is 2000-14 years ago.
Have they had anyone to be proud of since then?
And not to rain on anyone's parade, but we had plenty of posters here on GC saying the same thing about "choir boys don't win championships" back in 09-10. I got in many arguments with them.
I said at the time that character counts- that in general the higher the character the better the program.
A low character guy may be a great player, but the damage he does as an example to others will hurt the program in the long-term. I guess I've been proved right.
For some reason those posters are now gone.
One of my de facto replies to noles championship snarks is "I would rather lose without a rapist at quarterback than win with a rapist at quarterback."
Miami is a rich kid school and it's in a nice part of town.
I agree (I threw Weinke in because of the Heisman). I met one of those Gator fans a few months ago (potential client) and I have to say I wasn't happy he was a Gator. Just my thing, I guess, but would rather lose than win with cretins. I also think we're in for some major changes in college athletics with more and more of this mess piling up (and paying players isn't the answer) and I'd like to think we're getting in front of it.
They had a kid a few years ago who was a Rhodes scholar. Can't remember his name. Now it appears they have several Rogue scholars.
Edit: It was Myron Rolle. After reading that article, there's no wonder guys like Tebow and others don't get a fair shake. On the contrary, the author makes it sound like Jameis will fit right. in.
That is so right. He should always be the one we are most proud of - a truly great ambassador for us and one of the greatest examples of how life should be lived.
I agree with you that thread contains representative sampling. But if you look at that board it seems like the heavy hand of group-think takes over not long after this story broke.
I agree with you about being fair. I think a lot of FSU fans are very troubled by this. I'm at the point in life where I sadly understand the bias and influence of group think that conflicts with what I was trained at UF to believe. That an engineer must rely on and believe in empirical truth. I remember one of my professors that often testified as an expert in lawsuits talking about the immutable laws of physics that we utilized/learned and contrasted that with the fact that it was never a problem for either side to find an "expert" to advocate their position.
I really don't think FSU fans are very different from our fans. The difference lies in their school admin and local institutions. They were starving for it for so long that they sold their souls. Their golden boy is going to make them pay.
We haven't gone there in my opinion and I hope it stays that way.
That's a tough question. I would say the former and it seems the only ones that wouldn't pick the latter just don't see the question the way you framed it.
Winston would disgust me at any school but I don't envy FSU because they have made a faustian bargain with this POS.
I was at the Swamp in 1993 during that thrilling game. I didn't like FSU then but I remember respecting Ward and Dunn. I certainly didn't feel the disgust I feel now.
Myron Rolle compared Jameis Winston to Emmett Till. He's a ****ing idiot, Rhodes Scholar or not.
I think he aWAS a smart enough guy- then he matriculated at Florida State and their ignorance infected him.
I think comparing good guy players versus bad guy players really is not the issue. Teams all get there share of both.
The issue is what the coaches, schools, police and community will tolerate from the bad players. The Tallahassee police behavior is shocking in not investigating a rape case and people should absolutely be fired for such behavior. Tallahassee police have a long history of letting players slide. As to coaches, Meyer certainly gets blamed for sweeping misbehavior under the rug (SOS doesn't get enough credit for his policies). With the no suspension of Winston for at least being an idiot, thief and bad representative (if not a rapist), Fisher is proving his lack of character as a coach.
This all reminds me of a conversation I had with my father-in-law in the mid to late 90s regarding Nebraska. Both of his daughters and his son graduated from Nebraska, but seeing how the football culture and program were being given free reign to rape and beat the women in Lincoln, he said it made it difficult to be a fan and there is no way he would allow his daughters to got there at that time. Keep in mind, they were winning national championships at the time. Hard core supporters of the team and institution grow weary of the negative attention. Idiot apologist fans will never care enough to take a moral stand.
I live in Tallahassee and I have to say not everyone thinks he's innocent, and making excuses for this Punk. I talked to a number of our secretaries when the Rape case was dismissed, and they where visibly upset. When this Crabgate happened they where saying how does he not get arrested for shoplifting, and that you don't forget the one thing in your hand unless you're really a dumb ass. Just as a point of reference they happen to be Ladies of Color.