Over 400 US Major Businesses Call for Immigration Reform

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by AzCatFan, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Our current immigration laws are antiquated and completely ineffective. It's not only me who understands this, but over 400 business leaders in the us from various industries. Here is an open letter they wrote to Congress with a few highlights:

    If you don't think the Gang of 8 bill is the right solution, that's fine. Open debate can be productive in finding a solution that is acceptable to all. But by now, it should be obvious that something must be done and our current system is beyond broken. And just simply doing nothing but attempt to enforce current laws without first changing them is a recipe for disaster. Unless you believe these 400 top business leaders do not know what they are talking about.
  2. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    I believe the 400 top business leader do know what they are talking about, but it is their interests, not our interests. They want cheap labor, period. That is beyond obvious.

    Our immigration laws are not broken. They are not being enforced on purpose to create a crisis. It has. Those who created the crisis also have a solution. It's not good.

    The pubs want cheap labor. The dems wants dependent voters. The lower AND middle classes gets squeezed. Money politics.
  3. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    If the pubs want cheap labor, why are they not even putting the G8 bill up for debate to vote on? And it's not true that the lower and middle classes are getting squeezed. When we remove immigrant labor from the picture, they aren't being replaced by citizen labor. In fact, according to this link:

    It's not a choice between cheap immigrant labor and cheap citizen labor. If it were, then I'd say let's go with citizen labor. The choice is between cheap immigrant labor and no labor at all. And given these two options, the best option is cheap immigrant labor.
  4. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    might want to do a breakdown of the list by the following categories
    ---associations, chambers of commerce, etc--
    those in agricultural areas vs those not from agricultural areas

    ---indivdual large corporations--
    1. those that are primarily agricultural companies
    2. those that are high tech or other non agri companies

    couple of things really stand out during a brief look at the entire list of companies
    ---a whole lot of agri associations, etc but very few individual large agri corporations on the list. This seems to point to smaller agri businesses getting stomped by large agri corporations with a possible factor of the stomping being more larger corp use of illegal aliens as labor.
    ---a lot of tech firms and non agri corporations and few individual agri corporations
  5. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Many of these businesses are probably talking about educated and highly skilled immigrants, and not so much about these schleps that keep slithering across our southern border.

    The brainy immigrants can't come here... and that's a bigger problem then letting in tons of new lawn-cutters and landscapers cross the southern border..
  6. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Does it matter, in economic terms, whether or not the immigrant is a brainiac or a low-skilled fruit picker? If a business owner has a demand for services that he/she cannot supply because of a domestic labor shortage, and there are willing, able, and cost-efficient immigrant workers, shouldn't our system be based on allowing the supply of labor meet demand?

    To me, it makes no difference. If Microsoft needs to import a few software engineers to make the next great leap in technology because there aren't enough citizens who can do the work, let them come in. And if some farm conglomeration needs 100 workers for a few weeks to pick their crops and the only ones willing to do the work are immigrants, let those immigrants come too. An immigration system based on need instead of outdated and unrealistic numbers would be a huge improvement.
  7. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    High tech companies want cheaper immigrant labor that will replace American workers. I know this for a fact. It's part of my job.

    What happens when 10-20 millions illegals become citizens? As soon as this immigration bill is passed, no matter what its says about restricting citizenship, they'll all become citizens. Then the next wave of illegals will come. There are 6 billion people in the world that are poorer than a dog turd that will do anything to get on the dole.

    Our immigration policy should be deportation and Claymores.
  8. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    The numbers - the federal treasury, effect on wages and jobs, and the curtailing of illegals - are all strongly helped by passage of the bill according to detailed analysis. The fact that Republicans won't even bring it to a vote in the House - where it would pass - and eventual signing into law by the president tells us all we need to know about how radical and out of touch with reality the modern party is. They won't do anything except another hand job of Obamacare repeal, as if they were elected as performance artists. It's beyond disturbing and in the realm of pathetic.
  9. leogator
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    leogator Well-Known Member

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    It's never about whether they can't find the skill they're looking for. It's that they can't find the skill they're looking for at a set, usually low, rate. They can always export the job instead of importing the immigrant.
  10. QGator2414
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    Immigration should be such a simple fix. Strengthen the border. Create a simple way for employers to hire people on visas. If you catch an employer hiring illegals slam them and by attrition many of the illegals will make it back to their home country where they can apply for work through the simplified visa system.
  11. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely it matters. The brainiac immigrant with a few masters degrees will have a higher-paying job, will spend more money here (propping up and supporting still more domestic jobs), and is more likely to be a net producer.

    Contrast that with a low-skilled, low-wage fruit picker--who's earning income is limited and will more likely than not cost society more than they give.

    Don't get me wrong: I realize a low-wage workforce is critical in certain fields like agriculture, construction, and certain restaurant fast food chains. As you said, if 100 farm hands are needed and no domestic workers are wanting the job, then by all means, a company should be able to fill the demand. Problem is: the vast majority of immigrants who currently find their way here are low-wage workers.

    Both parties profit off of it, so that's unlikely to change---but average citizens get a bit annoyed when they have to foot the bill for the social costs of illegal immigration.
  12. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    :laugh::yes:

    The claymores might be a bit much but the rest of it is spot on.
  13. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Of course the braniac will make more money and spend more, but that is scale. The economics are the same. Both fill a need and is a cog in the economy. As the saying goes, the world needs ditch diggers too. And if you own a ditch digging company and your choices are hire illegals or go out of business, it is better for everyone if the business stays open. Better for the owner, better for his/her other employees, better for the clients, and better for the community to have an open business versus more people on unemployment.

    As for adding more citizens, last time we did amnesty, only 40% of eligible migrants took it. Why? Because many return home every year. The problem in 1986 was no plan beyond 86. It was either amnesty or deportation. The new law is different.

    First are the Dreamers. Been here since childhood, have a high school degree, and either has a bachelor's degree or a military vet. That covers 2 million of the immigrants. And in general, college grads and military vets in their early 20's are not drains on the economy.

    As for the rest of the immigrants, again, many will voluntarily return home. The rest would have to work and stay out of trouble for 13 years before gaining citizenship. Meanwhile, as migrants are returning home, more will be replacing them, and starting their citizenship clocks. Some will stay, many will return home, and more will come to replace them.

    What we need to remember is we need the immigrant labor. Experiences in places that increased enforcement saw only 9% of vacated jobs replaced. Nationally, that represents millions of jobs. Not to mention, it would cost billions to enforce current law. And the 400+ business leaders all understand this, which is why they are calling for reform.
  14. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    The top 10 companies that use H1-B visas are outsourcers from India. They either supply labor as a middleman to replace skilled workers here in the US while keeping most of the wages themselves and giving very little of it to those actually doing the work, or they send workers to the US for training to have them go back to India and then set up IT centers to provide more outsourcing.

    Only 2% of those who get the visas from those outsourcing companies are provided with green cards. If those workers are so valuable, then they should be kept. Contrast that with Microsoft, Google etc, who gives 90% of those they bring over a green card because they are actually bringing in top flight talent.

    The H1-B program is a joke and it has now been tripled with the Senate bill. The companies in India were howling because a provision was included that they have to actually start hiring Americans in India to keep their H1-B's and that firms here can no longer lay off workers to replace them with foreigners. They are complaining that it's unfair to them and will hurt their economy.

    Anyway, there is a true shortage of highly skilled tech workers now in the US because all of the old tech workers told their children that going into IT was not worth it. But still, there are plenty of tech workers who could be hired but simply won't work for the ridiculous wages being offered.

    All in all, the H1-B program is mainly being used by corrupt US businesses to increase profits by replacing highly skilled US tech workers with average talent from overseas. It has hurt a lot of companies but they keep doing it. They don't get the elite talent because those people make more money to stay in India.
  15. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    They can work and then go back to their country, that's what I think is what's best.
  16. DieAGator
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    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense, stop pretending we need 10 million kitchen/restaurant workers.
  17. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    When someone retires in my company, no one is hired to replace them. That job moves to an emerging market. If the trend continues, which it will, there will come a time when we can do the job in this country for lack of talent.

    Right now the execs are trying to keep the stock prices high, pad their bonuses and pass the problem to the next guy when they retire.
  18. g8trjax
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    g8trjax Well-Known Member

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    Sad part is, amnesty is a done deal. Big business will get their slave labor, dems will get their huge influx of ignorant new voters and the new 'citizens' will exponentially multiply the sucking sound of money disappearing from entitlement Washington.
  19. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I actually agree with Die. We don't need 10 million restaurant workers. Of course, the business leaders calling for reform represent many more industries than just restaurants. They include agriculture, construction, hospitality, and more. And those industries need their labor.

    Die and I have done this dance before. I link reports, stories, and charts proving why we need immigration reform. Die ignores it all and says I have it all wrong, without backing up his opinions on iota. It's an exercise in frustration, but for all those willing to at least learn more about the real problems and issues, here's another link that explains the immigration labor issues we face today quite well.

    The broken immigration system is already contributing to labor scarcities that are forcing some farmers to plant fewer crops and grow more food outside the country, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said.

    Pretty much exactly what I have been saying. With increased enforcement recently, but no change in immigration laws, we have already seen labor shortages in industries that rely on immigrant labor. But those shortages haven't been enough to significantly effect the cost of things yet, so the pain isn't enough for people to move yet. But if the shortages got more severe, and food prices skyrocketed, things would change quickly. And absent of any change in immigration laws, as the UC Davis Professor puts it, the status quo is the next best thing.
  20. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    All the immigration reform we need is already law. It's being ignored so we can get "new" laws. Anything Washington does is screwed up.

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