OFFICIAL: George Zimmerman Trial Thread Week 2

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by DaveFla, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. bposs
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    bposs Well-Known Member

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    Based on the Casey Anthony trail, it's either guilty or not guilty of 2nd degree murder. There is no lesser charge that can be brought up.
  2. PIMking
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    PIMking New Member

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    you're a defense attorney right?
  3. MastaG8r
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    MastaG8r New Member

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    Hi, chompalot! :wave:

    Question regarding that comment in bold type -- does that apply to IRS officials, too?

    Bye, chompalot! :wave:
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  4. PIMking
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    from a detective who stated that he lied to zimmerman to get what he wanted out of him. You know the detective that said he LIED to Zimmerman to get what he wanted.

    The detective LIED to z to get what he wanted and you believe him? lol
  5. PIMking
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    PIMking New Member

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    Toobin from CNN is saying how great the cross examination is working great for the defense because he keeps telling how Z cooperated and acted in self defense.
  6. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    Softball questions.

    I assume the standard does not change for the State being that the murder is not in question and who did it is not in question--that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. What is in question is whether it was self defense or not.

    My understanding is, the State still has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not act in self defense? The burden does not fall on the accused to prove he was acting in self defense, eventhough we know he killed TM?

    If this is the case, it does not matter who started it, but more importantly, was GZ's life threatened before he pulled his gun? To make the claim of self-defense, does it need to be shown that GZ had no other option (i.e. he could have retreated during the altercation) to save his life, but to shoot TM?

    The second degree murder, to me, is a massive stretch and GZ was completely overcharged. For second degree you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ acted with a depraved mind. To get to a depraved mind you have to prove that GZ acted with some ill-will or hatred. Hence, all the questions today from the defense and no one noting that GZ had ill-will or hatred.
  7. MastaG8r
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    MastaG8r New Member

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    More...
  8. PIMking
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    this investigator looks like a fool and the Prosecution is probably praying to god that he croaks on the stand like right now
  9. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    I sure wish I knew what trial you're watching. Because it certainly isn't the one being discussed here.
  10. Lawdog88
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    If the case goes to the jury, they will be instructed on 2Murder, and manslaughter, a category one lesser included offense (and the instruction on manslaughter will be required to be given). Manslaughter will be a second, lesser option; there may be instructions on other lesser included offenses also, such as battery, depending on whether they are supported by the evidence, when the evidence is done.

    If the judge instead grants a Judgment of Acquittal in favor of the defense at either the close of the State's case, or at the close of the defendant's case (when the evidence is all in and done), because she feels that no reasonable jury could return a verdict of guilt for 2M, that's it. Case over. Nothing else was charged in the State's Information. If 2M goes, it all goes.



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  11. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    In a case where who shot who is admitted, once the defense makes a prima facie showing of self-defense (i.e. presents evidence of facts that would support a justifiable force defense), the State bears the burden of both disproving beyond a reasonable doubt the self-defense claim and still proving the criminal intent element of the murder charge.

    As to who started it, the defense is a little different if Zimmerman started it. While in general Florida's SYG law is that there is no duty to retreat if the facts justifying force are made out, under section 776.041 if the defendant initially provoked the use of force himself, the justifiable force self-defense claim isn't available unless:

    So to the degree they could prove that Zimmerman initially provoked the use of force against himself, the defense would then need to show the unavailability of retreat - although to the degree their claim is that he was pinned to the ground that wouldn't be a terribly big deal.
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  12. PIMking
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    Whats amazing is that they're trying to pin this on Zimmerman to the point that he profiled Martin as being a bad person when the states witness profiled Zimmerman as a Cracker and the news profiled him as a Jew with the last name he has.

    profile profile profile, the prosecution isn't grasping at straws, they're flailing for them
  13. uftaipan
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    uftaipan Well-Known Member

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  14. PIMking
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    Sunny Hostin on CNN is full of Denial! it's comical, that woman is all in on this one. Her and Nancy Grace should marry
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  15. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Did CNN reveal GZ's SS# as Drudge is reporting?
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  16. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    It was on a police document (the top of his written statement which ID's who is making the statement) that got projected onto the screen as a piece of evidence, and CNN showed it (along with his phone number and address).
  17. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    WOW, irresponsible
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  18. HallGator
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    Thanks LD and Ben. Appreciate the information you guys are providing. Others too.
  19. Lawdog88
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    And Ben, to the degree that GZ's statements have been admitted into evidence, along with the testimony of the State's witnesses (dude in black on top, throwing down MMA style) and the defense's adept cross-examination of them, the defense is quite likely already established and they may not need to call any witnesses in the defense case to do so.
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  20. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    A ballsy move, but it wouldn't surprise me in this case...

    They even got GZ's testimony in without the prosecution having opportunity to cross examine him...

    You never know what a jury will do, but this one sure seems to be a slam-dunk for the defense. It's not even that the state did a poor job of prosecuting him. They just had nothing to present.
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