OFFICIAL: George Zimmerman Trial Thread Week 2

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by DaveFla, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    That's weird.

    Any allegations of pain and suffering are not part of the State's burden, nor elements of the charge of M2, and do not seem to be reasonably related to proving up a demonstration of "depraved mind."

    Sounds like it was highly inflammatory . . . by design.
  2. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps - and quite incredibly to any rational mind - the State really is going to argue the Johnny Cash / Folsom Prison state of mind:

    I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    LD, what happens is this -- the SA asks some questions establishing the ME's (ample) qualifications. The SA starts to ask a question, at which point the ME cuts in to say he'd like to explain something to the jury (can't remember his exact words). The SA agrees, and the ME launches into a narrative story of Martin arriving as an unidentified body, that he was sealed in a bag with a case number, etc, and then begins to describe the wounds and explains that his wound would have not killed him immediately, that blood would have been pumping, that he would have been aware, that he was "still in pain, still suffering".

    At that point, defense counsel objects. Judge Nelson asks if his objection is relevance, he says it is, that this is an emotional appeal, Nelson overrules him very tersely. After another moment's exchange, she asks counsel to approach. After a few minutes discussion, they return and she announces the objection is sustained and instructs the SA to actually, y'know, ask questions.
  4. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Problem is, this 590+ post thread represents like one, maybe 2 questions on the bar exam--you don't have the luxury of processing the scenario ad nauseum for days on end--though you could spend that kind of time on a single scenario. :geek:
  5. MichiGator2002
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    Goodness, we should be so lucky to have as many as two questions that this discussion could prepare you for.
  6. MichiGator2002
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    Okay, the SA has now actually asked how Martin died -- let's see how quickly the defense objects if he starts to walk over his own testimonial footsteps.
  7. GatorGrowl
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    GatorGrowl Forum Admin Staff Member GC Staff VIP Member

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    The question the SA asked was TM's height. which the ME asked if he could just do an autopsy report and then he just start talking..
  8. GatorBen
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    The prosecution wants it for the emotional plea, but the claim that he was alive for 1 to 10 minutes after the shot could also support Zimmerman's claim that Martin said something to him after the shot ("you got me" or whatever) and may be used to explain the discrepancy between Zimmerman saying he spread Martin's arms after shooting him and the pictures taken by the crime scene techs showing the body with the hands underneath it.
  9. bposs
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    So far has the ME said or not if TM had any injuries?
  10. MichiGator2002
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    The ME's strongest relevant testimony so far seems to be that the bullet wound was shot "straight", i.e. not at an angle, and that he does not believe that the gun was not in direct contact with Martin when fired.

    This ME keeps wanting to just lecture the jury, judge just had to instruct him to let the SA actually ask him questions.
  11. 92gator
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    Sounds like the judge is pandering to the public.

    If GZ is convicted, the judge will get slammed on appeal.

    (...and maybe the judge realizes that the state's case is doomed, so the judge is hedging against any appeal by teh state--because it doesn't sound like the state will have much grounds for appeal--I mean, you can't really appeal on issues in which your requests were granted--the appellate courts don't normally go about fixing your own screw-ups--they correct screw ups by teh trial court (and perhaps the oppsoing party) that may have cost you your case).

    Just conjcture.
  12. bposs
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    TM probably rolled over himself with hands cupping his chest. Wouldn't that make sense?
  13. GatorGrowl
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    The left hand was asked about and no injuries existed on LH
  14. MichiGator2002
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    Reversible error is a pretty high bar on appeal, but that first overrule of the objection to the ME's jag about pain and suffering was very, very eyebrow raising to me. I mean, his testimony at that point was the sort that a professor might use to explain what the relevance rules are there to prevent.
  15. bposs
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    Nothing else? Than why would someone with no injuries be crying out for help?
  16. GatorBen
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    I'm not sure the lack of contact doesn't hurt the state.

    Keep in mind that the gunshot tech testified that the gun was in direct contact with the sweatshirts (and the ME just testified that there was "loose contact" between the gun and the clothes), now the ME testifies that the gun was not in contact with skin.

    How do you have a gun touching the front of a shirt but not pressed into the skin? By having the person getting shot standing or leaning over the gun. If Zimmerman was on top, it's a lot harder to get to an explanation of how the gun could have been contacting the clothes without pushing the clothes into the skin.
  17. MichiGator2002
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    This witness seems like it's a wash for the state, which (since I assume this is their showstopper), is not great news. I can't wait for the cross, he's basically fighting the SA over who is in charge of his examination.
  18. 92gator
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    Especially high, when the reversible errror(s) favor the Appellant. :grin:

    "...but had the Trial Court NOT granted our motion(s)/objection(s), we would have won!".

    Nah...probably not gonna' getcha' very far... :no:
  19. MichiGator2002
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    Well, I didn't mean that specific objection, just the standard in general. That one the judge actually came to her senses and sustained. Of course as I say that, she's just overruled defense objection to continued narrative testimony.
  20. SmootyGator
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    I've already requested this from Chomp with no response. Good luck!
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