OFFICIAL: George Zimmerman Trial Thread Week 2

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by DaveFla, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. MichiGator2002
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    No, but so far one can certainly reasonably conclude that's what might have happened. And that all it takes to lose a conviction if you apply the standard correctly.
  2. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    I hope that you're not believing GZ's story.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Well, it's the story that has the most supporting evidence presented at trial so far, but again, it doesn't matter -- one doesn't have to "believe" him, per se. Just that his story is believable enough to raise a reasonable doubt of the charges against him.

    Are you still stuck back on that false statement that Zimmerman has a preponderence burden? Clinging to that despite it being an objectively incorrect statement?
  4. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    Guilty people blatantly lie.
  5. Lawdog88
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    The State's evidence strongly suggests that inference if not outright actually establishes it, which includes the statements of GZ, TM's girl friend, the independent witnesses, and the DNA evidence of GZ's blood found on TM's clothing, and the respective injuries of GZ and TM.

    Since you are advocating an objective point of view all of a sudden, your problem - if you chose to solve it - is to objectively tell me how the State's own evidence can disprove beyond all reasonable doubt, that TM launched the physical aggression, if it simultaneously strongly suggests - or actually establishes - that he did ?
  6. chompalot
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    Good thing you're not on the jury.
  7. Lawdog88
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    I accept your white flag.
  8. MichiGator2002
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    So do innocent people a lot of the time, it turns out, which is why "blatantly lie" is not an element of any homicide crime recognized in the State of Florida.

    And, for that matter, even if it was, the state wouldn't have proven even *that* much beyond a reasonable doubt, as they've had a couple of their own witnesses up on the stand saying that Zimmerman didn't change his story.

    The fact that you always, always, invariably veer back to trite bumper-sticker length (and bumper sticker deep) responses when people put the actual law in plain english before you? Says a lot about how much you actually care about the ideas behind and integrity of the criminal justice system.
  9. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    If I'm accused of murder and I know it was self-defense, one thing I'd make sure of is that I'd tell the truth.
  10. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    GZ said TM was putting ALL of his weight on him to smother him, while GZ's nose was bleeding. Where is the DNA?
  11. Speedofsand
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    Speedofsand New Member

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    the wet grass washed it off, duh.
  12. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    How was GZ screaming if TM had his mouth and nose covered right before the shot?
  13. MichiGator2002
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    And you've pointedly ignored references to your own hypocrisy on this attitude when it comes to other recent news stories/threads, but whatever. Again, state witnesses said that he didn't change his story, so why are you treating "lies" as something proven in court?

    Sounds like you are operating under the CSI effect[/i], for one thing, the false belief that there is conclusive, dispositive forensic evidence in every criminal case that would be available if the position it would support was true.

    But even at that... again, you seem to have no grasp of who actually has what burden of proof.
  14. MichiGator2002
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    Has this mouth/nose thing, this account, actually come into evidence at some point? I haven't heard mention of it in the coverage. Is this more of you expecting... insisting, really... that the jury go looking outside the actual scope of the trial for facts on which to decide the case?
  15. chompalot
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    Yes, I heard it last night on the tape of GZ's initial questioning at the police station. I believe it was the day after the shooting. It really didn't add up to me. Well, I take that back Afterall, GZ seems to be a pathological liar.
  16. Speedofsand
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    Martin's mom was just telling lies on the stand. She is guilty of perjury.
  17. gatordpm
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    Zimmerman said it when the detective took him back and videotaped his story the next day. I believe both accounts can be correct...he can be screaming and trayvon could be covering his mouth...maybe not at the same time but he could be fighting to get his mouth free to scream. I don't understand why people can't see that?
  18. WESGATORS
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    From what I have seen in the trial, it has been established that while Zimmerman was lying on his back, there should not have been any blood coming out of his nose onto his face. Rather, the blood would have gone back down his throat.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  19. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    Is it too hard to show a little respect?
  20. MichiGator2002
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    And that tape was entered into evidence at trial? This isn't a trick, I just want to know. Don't confuse its existence for its admission. Or did any state witness testify that Zimmerman gave them that version of events?
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