OECD Ranking Of Top Countries In Reading, Science, And Math

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I read Finland expenditure per student is comparable to just NJ's (teacher union capital of the world) administrative cost per student. Pathetic! Even the secretaries have secretaries in Jersey.
  2. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure a dollar in Finland is not equal to a dollar in New Jersey.
    Otherwise, I notice the complaints about educational problems being all the fault of liberals and unions kind of went silent when the keys to Finland's success were posted: Unions, universal health care, free college, equal funding for all schools, no standardized tests ....
  3. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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    And....

    The Fins have only 5 million people and have one of the lowest immigration rates in Europe. Basically, everyone in Finland are Finnish.

    I bet if you rounded up all the 1st and 2nd generation people of Nordic decent living in Minnesota and Wisconsin and tested all of them, they'd probably test similar to the Fins. I also bet that Korean-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc. test very similar to the students in their countries of orgin.
  4. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    strip out minorities and I believe that you will see that we aren't that bad. from what was discussed this am on CNBC, the US would be near or at the top of the chart if you removed blacks and Hispanics. until the culture rewards and encourages education as a worthy endeavor, that will not change no matter how much money we throw at it
  5. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    so you're saying the issues are demographic, the students and their parents, and have nothing to do unions, PC and all things liberal as claimed earlier in this thread?
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  6. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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    I do believe that cultural demographics are the primary root cause of our education issues in the U.S.

    I also think our poor performance has nothing to do with the lack of God in school, political correctness, or most liberal agendas.

    With that being said, I still believe that the one single position by the unions is the primary driving forces that keeps Latinos and African-American in their status quo. IMHO, the unions' adamant opposition to school choice is what keeps us locked in our current situation.

    Currently most Latinos and African-Americans are forced to go to schools entirely based on districting. If they were allowed true school choice (including a voucher program), those groups could eventually break out their horrible cycle of poverty and poor education.

    If the teachers' unions dropped their stance on school choice, I'd have absolutely no problem with them whatsoever.
  7. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    cultural? Doubt it

    race? Doubt it

    Going to guess its more about socio-economics
  8. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    How is that? You're claiming it's either race or culture, not the schools. And then claim if those same kids went to different schools, the problems would disappear.
  9. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    honest question, do good neighborhoods actually want an influx of low-income students?
  10. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    good read, thanks

    im guessing higher education paid via taxes will never fly here because of the private money being made
  11. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    If they act like law abiding citizens who cares how much they make?
  12. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    that's not what i asked
  13. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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    First, IMHO it's not race. I do not believe that AA's and Latinos have inferior DNAs. They're just as capable of achieving as Whites or Asians. But, there are institutionalized differences in cultures among the races.

    Second, the change would definitely no happen overnight. Many of AA's and Latinos in the inner cities wouldn't opt for the hassle and the stigma of sending their kids to suburban "White" schools. But many would. And, as those students started to succeed, they cycle would slowly break.
  14. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    It sort of already is, look at the cost of a college degree, then look at the amount of debt the avg student graduates with. You really think that the 22-23 yr old with 100k in debt and a BA in European Hx is gonna pay that back. That will be the next bailout/bubble.

    We fight and bitch about the cost of HC increasing look at how much Higher Ed has increased in the last 10 yrs.

    Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

    Using this chart to explain its findings, Bloomberg reports that the rate of increase in college costs has been "four times faster than the increase in the consumer price index." It also notes that "medical expenses have climbed 601 percent, while the price of food has increased 244 percent over the same period."



    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...12-fold-1120-percent-bloomberg_n_1783700.html


    So much for those bastions of liberalism giving a crap about the cost to the students they "serve".
  15. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Sorry that's how I answered, what were you inferring perhaps if you were asking another question perhaps I misunderstood.
  16. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They'd hate it. But, too bad. The rich neighborhoods hated it when we started forced busing.

    But, there's a HUGE difference between forced busing and the use of school choice. School choice would not just force poor kids into the rich kids' schools. Instead, it would allows those who want to be and go through the hassle of getting there to move to the rich kids' school.

    It similar to military when we had the draft. My old commander use to tell me horror stories about trying to command non-volunteer troops.
  17. RealGatorFan
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    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    How do you compare scores? Our scores are different than Europe and Asia. The tests themselves are US tests, not international tests. I've always had an issue with these comparisons when each country's tests are different. Apples and Oranges here. I have an 8yr old niece who is at a private school and already doing advanced algebra which is usually offered in middle school (she is in 2nd grade BTW). These scores do not reflect private schools either. Interestingly, private schools have far higher scores AND rarely do you ever hear of shootings or crime. Hmm.

    Getting off topic; I can't see how you can set standards using 50 different tests.
  18. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    They do it comparing healthcare outcome from country to country.
  19. g8trjax
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    g8trjax Well-Known Member

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    Hope and change is here, not by accident.
  20. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Come on. You can't claim that educational underachievement is deeply ingrained in the culture, but it will magically disappear when they're around white folk. The key is the home.

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