Obesity Is Not Killing Us ...

Discussion in 'Gator Country Health and Fitness' started by Dreamliner, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    More on the recently released compilation of studies showing people who are overweight with less mortality risks than people of normal weight:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/10/rethinking-thin.html

    For the record, because I've been muddled for awhile about the supposed link between obesity and mortality, I have never resorted to fearmongering with fat people. In fact, I never badger people about their weight. That's entirely their business. I turn my attention and efforts towards people who think their fat is ugly.
  2. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    Without reading the studies there is just so much more I want to know. Initially, I think this is just a marketing ploy by Big Pharma to keep people medicated. Where as recently I have met a number of women who have lost significant weight through diet and exercise and also gotten themselves off all sorts of meds.

    Still, as I was reminded just the other day I live in a very appearance conscious city. Not a health conscious city. And it is much better to focus your efforts on vanity than improving anyones health.
  3. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about Big Pharma, but researchers, and not a few medical specialists, appear to be accepting these findings, however grudgingly.

    Also, a recent study suggests that obesity actually appears to confer at least some immunity against death by heart attack.

    As I said, this doesn't affect my focus at all. There are plenty of folks out there who are unhappy about the way their fat *looks* without having to scare them into losing it.
  4. malscott
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    malscott Premium Member

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    I read the article she is referring too. It says people that are slightly overweight live longer healthier lives. Obese people die early. All those Europeans gals that walk to the village every day for 80 years are always 'stocky' they seem to do fine. When you are super portly is when you are asking for big trouble; obviously. Weight is a problem for a lot of us. I'm in great shape but still struggle to stay at the weight I prefer. I care what I look like. So maybe ego is my motivator, plus health concerns. A lot of folks have simply given up. I am empathetic to their situation. I think struggling with it is more stressful and depressing then just being heavy and accepting it.
  5. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Obese, by BMI live longer than normal by BMI. Maybe you have morbid obesity in mind ?

    An example of the type of person who lives longer is a new client of mine. She's had her bodyfat tested at over 36%. That's a LOT of fat to carry, in my opinion. But I can't tell her it's going to kill her. She may well outlive me with my 10% or less bodyfat.

    Now, I do agree that people appear to be giving up on losing weight. I see it all around me. But this seeming lack of resolve may have something to do with either or both past failure and the mistaken notion that one must eliminate tasty foods and undertake arduous exercise routines to lose weight. I'm trying to wean folks off of this stuff.
  6. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    A couple of other thoughts here, I read an article by Brad Pilon where he talks about BMI and how the numbers were rounded down to be nice neat numbers.

    http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/bmi-facts-and-fallacies/

    The normal numbers originally went to 27.8 for men and 27.3 for women. This would most likely be game changer for a study like this. Because more people in that study who are being considered overweight are in fact normal according to the original intentions of the BMI. I am included in that gap with an overweight BMI but lower than average BF% and a good waist to hip ratio.

    Your last point is what concerns me the most, while this study seems accurate what good is it going to do? Give people more reason to just accept the way they look and possibly feel.
  7. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1555137
  8. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but my point is that I have precious little evidence by which to scare people into losing weight. And I continue to be optimistic that there will always be plenty of people concerned about the way they look, never mind other factors.

    BTW, McArdle spends probably half her article addressing the BMI issue.

    Re: Pilon, whereas I wholeheartedly agree with much of what he says, he really jumped the gun on claims for calorie restriction and longevity.
  9. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    She addresses the detractors and the convenient dismissal of BMI when it doesnt fit the result you want. I dont think she discusses how the numbers have been tweaked and how that would change the results. I think Pilon's article discusses that issue more specifically.
  10. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    She actually talks about it at length. And fully half the comments section is her interacting with critics of BMI and talking about bodybuilders and competitive athletes. I get the strong impression that she gets the nuances.

    But not miss another point. We are constantly assaulted by forbodings of skyrocketing obesity. And how is this spiraling phenomenon measured ? BMI, not by researchers looking around and remarking, "Gee, seems like I see a lot more fat people than I did ten years ago."
  11. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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  12. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    So Dream, as Not Another Fitness Trainer you are going to focus on helping people look better if that is what they want. And for those looking improve their "health" what will you tell them about this information? I am honestly curious.
  13. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    It's a fair question, but I honestly do not appeal to health. Rather, I appeal to purely subjective notions of look/feel/move. Now, my sister may get the upper-hand. she's the marketing expert. But I'd prefer that the new website be devoid of any references to health. This is partly because I know I can't guarantee it and partly because I'm trying to disassociate myself from obsession with health and longevity.

    Of note: offhand I'd say the substantial majority of obese people I've worked with have been more concerned with look/feel/move than with health. Health may have been the 'presentation problem', but it became clear, down the road, that they just didn't want to be fat.

    Ex: a recent obese client of mine was fairly upfront about needing to lose weight because he didn't want to suffer the fate of his father and mother, their apparent weight-related deaths. Father had heart disease and mother diabetes.

    Father lived to be 82. Mother lived to be 80. I asked him, in so many words, "WTF ? Do you want to live forever ?" :laugh:
  14. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya but I kind of associate feel/move with health. It is not a purely vain pursuit in those cases. While it isnt the same as improving longevity or morbidity it isnt exactly just appearance in that case either. If your goal is to remove the term health from your pitch then the look/feel/move idea is great. I actually like that a lot the more I think about it.
  15. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I realize full-well that when people eat less and move more ... health markers, whether objective or subjective, are bound to improve. In a way, it comes out in the wash.
  16. fl_champ
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    fl_champ New Member

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    Why are we so focused on this life, as if we're going to live forever? Big, small, tall, short, we act like the choices we make we're going to live forever, it saddens me. The thing I believe our main focus should be on is life after this life is over, JMO. For me I believe it's heaven or hell. Yes I know that not everyone shares the same view, I just find it odd for people that say they don't know about what life will be like after death that they spend all their time and energy on the here and now and think nothing about life after death. I know a little bit of an odd post but I think it holds some merit in this thread.
  17. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    I do consider myself a Christian and I must tell you that Christians are as obsessed with any about health and longevity. I'm never surprised anymore when I see televangelists hawking supplements.
  18. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, really?!??!:roll::angry::devil::angel::dead:
  19. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Really, what ?
  20. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, not you. One of my least favorite things is the concept that we should be living our lives for the afterlife as opposed to living for the here and now. I dont mind the argument and accept that others feel that way. I just dont see the place for that statement here in this thread or forum.

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