obama uses Zimmerman verdict to push gun control

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    BY "alibi" I meant the defendants story of what happened, not a claim to not have been there. If I misused that I apologize.

    My point is that GZ's story is not now accepted as proven though he is rightly now and forevermore assumed innocent of the crime. Since his story is not proven we can't claim to know what happened in any area where alternative scenarios which do not involve magic can be proposed. I believe that there are at least several which could explain GZ's wounds without thereby making TM the initial aggressor. He could have been acting out of fear for his life. I am not saying that is what happened, but it is not far fetched or out of the realm of non-fantastic possibilities. We don't know the answer.
  2. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    sure sounded to me that all the detectives and a great deal of the testimony proved his story to be accurate

    of course libs, the naacp, and the anti gun crowd will try to spin it
  3. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I was serious about Perry Mason. And the Zimmerman case did play out like a Hamilton Burger prosecution to a Perry Mason defense.

    So it is that GZ's "story" about what happened is not disproved. In other words, it stands as the legal account of the facts that was accepted by the jury, and though assailed by the State, could not be disproven.

    Like Masta said on the other thread:

  4. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    And his last line is the one many are ignoring. That's all I'm addressing.
  5. romeg8r
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    romeg8r VIP Member

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    None of us know all that really happened but it seems clear that Martin was at one point on top of Zimmerman banging his head into the sidewalk. This means two things. One is that Zimmerman's claim of fearing for his life would be next to impossible to disprove and two that Martin was NOT the frightened vulnerable child the prosecution tried to sell him as.
  6. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    You are free to make up alternative scenarios from parallel universes, if it helps you not sully the imaginary facts that your myth needs.
  7. oaklandroadie
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    oaklandroadie Well-Known Member

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    Serious rep.
  8. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Maybe you should go to Times Square and give this speech.... :devil:

    I'm sure the African-American community deserves the treatment it receives under "Stop-n-Frisk" from the NYPD. :sick:

    If you really think the entertainment industry is the main reason for the problems confronting Black America you're kidding yourself.

    The gangsta image and its popularity is the result of real life societal & economic barriers

    Blame the root cause on the reactions of those facing those challenges not on those supporting the continuance of those barriers?


    Ask most Americans if they know that basic search rights are being ignored in the African-American community in New York...

    When was the last time a drug dealer's front door was bashed in by a SWAT team in a rich white neighborhood?

    My point being that....If your conducted the same number of traffic stops in the suburbs as you did in "da hood" you would find the arrest rates skyrocket for whites.

    There are just as many whites smoking weed, snorting blow, carrying weapons, & drinking & driving as black people.

    The statistics you believe black American needs to listen too are the result of where you apply the resources.

    I could arrest as many law breakers in Weston as Opa-Locka...for real.


    :ninja:
  9. MichiGator2002
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    Since you brought up Stop and Frisk in NYC, and appear to be a big Obama fan, it seems worth mentioning that Ray Kelly (commissioner of the NYPD, they of the aforementioned stop and frisk, see?) is a name being widely circulated and even actively pushed by NY's senior Senator Chuck U. Schumer as Obama's best choice to replace Big Sis, Janet Napolitano, as DHS Secretary. umad?
  10. romeg8r
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    romeg8r VIP Member

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    There is NO root cause that justifies violent crime. It is time to stop using excuses and start demanding better from the people around you. And I'm not talking about pot possesion arrests. I'm talking about shooting crimes, burglary and robbery. In one morning's news in Atlanta there were two shootings, a truck driven through the wall of a pawn shop so they could rob the pawn shop (for the third time) and a a chain wrapped around an ATM so they could pull it down the street behind a truck. You don't have to stop people on the street to find these crimes. They jump out at you. But, you are right, let's keep on pretending the police are really the problem and this will all fix itself.
  11. gator996
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    Pardon my french...but who gives "F" about Ray Kelly???



    Let's try to stay on topic here.....



    Do you support Stop-n-Frisk?

    Would you support it as Standard Operating Procedure it in your community?


    Didn't know basic rights were up for suspension.

    If this was a 2nd ammendment issue, let's say random searches of gun owners 90% of the place would be screaming from the rafters to impeach the "socialist" ....


    But profiling based on color....naaah, we're OK with that.



    :sick:
  12. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    You think the disproportionate numbers in incarceration rates between blacks & whites is driven by violent crimes?

    By faaaaar, the largest number of arrests are for non-violent drug crimes


    Tell me what your "opportunities" look like after you have a criminal record

    ...one that escalates to felony on 2nd or 3rd offenses...
  13. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    I do not support stop and frisk nor do i support stopping someone without true(key word) probable cause-
  14. romeg8r
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    romeg8r VIP Member

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    I agree with you. And I think that some of these shouldn't even be crimes. But, that is not what I was talking about at all. Like or not, there certainly appears to be a disproportunate amount of violent crime in the black community and this is what causes the average white person to have a certain level of suspicion. I said nothing more than that. If the goal is to lessen the suspicion, one requirement is going to be to lessen the amount of violent crime. The average white person is forming a "profiling type opinion" of any other group based on pot arrests. It is the shootings and robberies.
    And for the record, I do not support stop and frisk and cannot see any explanation for why it should be legal.
    I am not trying to start a race war here. I am just saying that at some point the amount of violence within the black community has to be addressed and it won't be if nobody is allowed to point out that it exists.
  15. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    You don't even know that. TM could have been reacting to a perceived threat from GZ, including just the knowledge that he had a gun. Do we know that GZ wasn't waving it in his face and/or threatening him and they were fighting for control? Many things can happen with people struggling for their life, and in this case it might have been both of them. Do we know that GZ didn't jump TM from behind and TM then flipped or otherwise subdued him? No, we don't.
  16. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Whatever that means.

    Of course GZ was free to make up his story too and there is no one available to counter it. You seem overly eager to believe it and just are flat out wrong about what the juries verdict means - not good for a defense attorney. I would think "alternative scenarios" would be your specialty.
  17. Lawdog88
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    So who took the dialogue personal, first ?

    Looks like you, again.
  18. mdgator05
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    The President did not comment on the specifics of the case, just expressed sympathy for the Martin family who just lost their son. But I specifically said I didn't comment in many of the threads because people on both sides were engaging in the same behavior. Sharpton, Jackson, and many on the right (including 7_5 on this thread) took giant leaps from what we knew into what they wanted to believe to justify their position. Both sides did a considerable amount of "finding" evidence by working back from their desired conclusion.
  19. jimgata
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    Would all those who wanted Zimmerman convicted, be happy, if Zimmerman was convicted, based on their shoulda's,woulda's and coulda's and what if's, instead of the evidence presented in court?
  20. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    First of all...stop worrying about starting race wars...we can discuss racial issues without thinking we're going to incite a race war...


    If Blacks are the most victimized and the most offending of violent or gun related crime, then by inference, they are attacking themselves...not white people

    So your profiling type opinion is kinda illogical

    Most black crime occurs in black neighborhoods, against black people, and in the case of guns is related to gang drug activity...not shooting white people


    Who claims the violence level doesn't exist?

    A better question is how can Stop-n-Frisk exist as public policy for 10+ years?


    http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

    Stop-and-Frisk Data

    An analysis by the NYCLU revealed that innocent New Yorkers have been subjected to police stops and street interrogations more than 4 million times since 2002, and that black and Latino communities continue to be the overwhelming target of these tactics. Nearly nine out of 10 stopped-and-frisked New Yorkers have been completely innocent, according to the NYPD’s own reports:


    In 2002, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 97,296 times.
    80,176 were totally innocent (82 percent).

    In 2003, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 160,851 times.
    140,442 were totally innocent (87 percent).
    77,704 were black (54 percent).
    44,581 were Latino (31 percent).
    17,623 were white (12 percent).
    83,499 were aged 14-24 (55 percent).

    In 2004, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 313,523 times.
    278,933 were totally innocent (89 percent).
    155,033 were black (55 percent).
    89,937 were Latino (32 percent).
    28,913 were white (10 percent).
    152,196 were aged 14-24 (52 percent).

    In 2005, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 398,191 times.
    352,348 were totally innocent (89 percent).
    196,570 were black (54 percent).
    115,088 were Latino (32 percent).
    40,713 were white (11 percent).
    189,854 were aged 14-24 (51 percent).

    In 2006, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 506,491 times.
    457,163 were totally innocent (90 percent).
    267,468 were black (53 percent).
    147,862 were Latino (29 percent).
    53,500 were white (11 percent).
    247,691 were aged 14-24 (50 percent).

    In 2007, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 472,096 times.
    410,936 were totally innocent (87 percent).
    243,766 were black (54 percent).
    141,868 were Latino (31 percent).
    52,887 were white (12 percent).
    223,783 were aged 14-24 (48 percent).

    In 2008, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 540,302 times.
    474,387 were totally innocent (88 percent).
    275,588 were black (53 percent).
    168,475 were Latino (32 percent).
    57,650 were white (11 percent).
    263,408 were aged 14-24 (49 percent).

    In 2009, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 581,168 times.
    510,742 were totally innocent (88 percent).
    310,611 were black (55 percent).
    180,055 were Latino (32 percent).
    53,601 were white (10 percent).
    289,602 were aged 14-24 (50 percent).

    In 2010, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 601,285 times.
    518,849 were totally innocent (86 percent).
    315,083 were black (54 percent).
    189,326 were Latino (33 percent).
    54,810 were white (9 percent).
    295,902 were aged 14-24 (49 percent).

    In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times.
    605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent).
    350,743 were black (53 percent).
    223,740 were Latino (34 percent).
    61,805 were white (9 percent).
    341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent).

    In 2012, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 532,911 times
    473,644 were totally innocent (89 percent).
    284,229 were black (55 percent).
    165,140 were Latino (32 percent).
    50,366 were white (10 percent).

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