Obama proposes tieing Financial Aid to college ratings

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatordowneast, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    My point was the ivy league schools have some of the most generous financial aid policies. Granted the admission rates are much lower but very few people that get accepted to Princeton for example get a large portion of their tuition paid leaving the tuition rates for those schools deceiving.
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  2. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Given the endowments, aren't most of the students getting *some* portion subsidized? It seems like it would look deceivingly high rather than the alternative.
  3. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me of a quote from Ghostbusters--Dan Akroyd to Bill Murray:

    "...I've worked in the private sector...they expect results!"
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  4. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Seems like there's always resistence to tying results to education.

    I'm actually much more surprised that this is coming from Barry, than at the idea itself. I'm feel'n kinda' like....

    Whoa....did our president--Barrack Obama--just have, like, a free market/capitalist idea here? Tie in govm't beny's, to freak'n results????

    Let me proudly 'cross the aisle' here, and congratulate the President, on a fantastically sound idea--props, Mr. Pres.
  5. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    The Ivies provide no merit-based aid (at least for undergrad) but are more generous than most schools in need-based aid. They typically count the expected parental contribution percentage (caluclated based off income and assets) somewhat lower than comparable schools do and have the "no expected parental contribution" income cutoff somewhat higher than other schools.

    Princeton is unique even among the Ivies, in that it has a "no-loan policy" where it doesn't include loans in the financial aid package for any students and instead gives grants for financial need.

    That's all undergrad only, and Princeton isn't representative even of the Ivies, but yes their subsidization is somewhat higher. Post-graduate degrees, you're generally paying close to sticker price at the Ivy League schools.
  6. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    I will add to Ben's comment that I don't think this proposal is directed towards the Ivys, the state universities, state colleges (which are often in other states, but really aren't in Florida as a result of the now-largely defunct 2+2 plan), non-Ivy private traditional universities, e.g. University of Miami type schools, or even private undergraduate colleges. The proposal really seems aimed at the for-profit Universities and colleges that we all see commercials for on television that are doing little more than making money off of public education programs and providing false hope to their students who have little more than zero prospects for paying back their insane debt loads with their barely Tier 4 $200,000 degrees. While educational debt is clearly a serious issue for those at the traditional schools I mentioned, the Tier 4 for-profit universities are a fiscal ticking time bomb that are fleecing their students and all federal tax payers. I'm glad something is being done to deal with it. It has taken long enough and ruined the educational prospects and finanacial situations of many prospective students and veterans.
  7. GatorNorth
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    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

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    If the target is for profit schools than legislation should be passed to crack down on the large worthless diploma mill that is for profit schools.

    Otherwise need based financial aid should be tied only to need. Tying it to other stuff is fraught with peril, starting with the development of an objective criteria.

    The last thing AMerican education needs is an incentive for the elite schools to become more elite.
  8. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this^^^^
  9. fubar1
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    fubar1 Premium Member

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    Our country needs to learn not everyone is fit or best utilized by attending college for four years.

    Some folks are better off going to trade school, and a German/Austrian model of apprenticeship arrangements is optimal.

    Some folks...well, to put it kindly, they're better off putting $300 in a savings account every month over the next 20 years (vs. student loan payments) since college just won't do them any good.
  10. gatorjd95
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    gatorjd95 Active Member

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    This.

    If a prospective student cannot determine the value and risks of attending one of those for-profit degree mills, they he/she should either not be attending college or deserves the debt. Caveat Emptor.

    The gov't should get out of the financial aid business where it makes money easy to get without concern for re-payment. If these students had to go to a bank and apply for a loan, the bank's response would "educate" the student as to reality of value of any school's program/degree.
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Rule number one when dealing with the government - they always change the rules and always add-on extra $h!t to programs.

    Once the government's foot is in that door... they own you and that place they have their foot in.

    Also, how many times has he lied to us... I don't trust one thing that cat proposes.
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  12. baygator1
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    baygator1 Premium Member

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    Well, I see need correlating to cost. So costs must be controlled or need spirals out of control with it.

    After reading the link, I see the criteria includes costs passed to the student as part of the rating. That might be a good step in the right direction when combined with the other criteria mentioned.
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  13. fubar1
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    fubar1 Premium Member

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    If the administration feels like they can mandate the % of premiums that private health insurers must pay out in claims, why can't they make mandates on public colleges and universities.

    Such as:

    -Any University's tuition can increase no more than their graduates' trailing 3-year entry-level salary increase
    -X% of all revenue/receipts (tuition + govt funding + endowment returns) must be spent on student aid
    -X% of all student loan payments must be made by the college/university for any graduate unemployed for longer than 12 months.

    See, mandates are fun. I just wonder why the education establishment is regarded as untouchable by this administration. Hmm...
  14. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    Performance based incentives sounds like a good thing
  15. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    What an absolutely asinine proposal. What could go wrong with the govt in control?

    The govt has done so well with K-12. They would never target conservative schools.
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  16. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    van is right. We do not need government involved in higher education. PERIOD.
  17. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    This is the very definition of socialism.
  18. uftaipan
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    uftaipan Well-Known Member

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  19. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    He's anti self protection. As long as the government has all the guns he's okay with that.
  20. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    We already have the government involved in higher education and they have been for a long time.

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