Obama needs a new diversion-Syria screwed up

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatordowneast, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I mean haven't we resolved civil wars with UN peacekeeping and joint military operations before? Haiti? Nicaragua? Rwanda? Bosnia? Croatia?

    These were not unilateral military actions. These all involved horrible atrocities.
  2. OklahomaGator
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    OklahomaGator VIP Member

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    There was nothing wrong with Obama drawing the line in the sand but crossing the line had to mean "instant, significant response". Not doing so makes it look like he is just going to draw another line.
  3. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Here was my worry with this: Obama draws this line and the Al Qaeda has their blueprint for getting support from the U.S. Stupid to even give them this.

    Let's find out who did this definitively and then support the U.N. mission (as Britain and France will be doing).
  4. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Obob,
    I wasn't clear sorry
    I meant the more we lean on other countries the less likely we are to go to war on our own. The more countries involved the harder it is to get everyone on board with a prolonged military attack. I am not against co-operating with other countries, forming coalitions and such - but when and if we make a statement, like drawing a line in the sand, and it applies mainly only to the US, it makes it harder for us to act by ourselves. Those that we warned know we will not move with out approval from all the other countries. They know they have time, other countries they can sway, bribe or threaten. In some ways the coalitions and the UN strengthen us. In others....they weaken us.
  5. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Define instant. If we are talking a month or a few, I think in political terms, that's instant enough. If he waited a year, but it doesn't need to happen right away. Regardless of any line drawing, he still needs political support form within and without.
  6. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    I have no problem with the "when" if it is decided that action is required. I have a problem with them announcing to the world in advance. Just do it and tell us about it after the missiles have struck. Get concensus. Do whatever you need to do. let the French lead...again.
  7. OklahomaGator
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    OklahomaGator VIP Member

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    In my mind, instant would be quick enough that the first official White House response to the situation would be: "this morning the US destroyed Syrian targets in ......."
  8. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I was watching the news this morning and had to roll my eyes at what a girl/translator said. She said if the US didn't help them, that when she grew up she'd write "Obama didn't help us". The reason for rolling my eyes - once more damned if you do, damned if you don't. If the US gets involved then AQ and others can say the Evil Infidel Americans are getting involved. If the US doesn't get involved, the Evil Infidel Americans care nothing about the plight of the innocent :roll:

    Frankly, no I don't want the US leading this. Let the UN and other countries stick their necks out.
  9. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    the u.s. needs to stay out of middle east civil wars----let them figure it out. invading syria is not in the best interests of this country.
  10. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    weaponizing and delivering weaponized chemical weapons on this scale is or at least has been beyond the capabilities possessed by AQ and is limited to a few central governments. there is a reason Syria has been shelling the areas since the UN wanted to go, they are trying to destroy any evidence related to the delivery systems that would relate directly back to Assad. I suspect the NSA already has copies of electronic transmittals authorizing the use of chemical weapons.

    And the principle here is much larger than Syria. Is the world willing to accept the massacre of civilians using wmd's? Anywhere..not just Syria.
  11. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    Estimates re casualties in Syria range from 80 K to 100 K. Before the chemical weapons were used.

    My question is what in the hell is the UN doing when he's murdering 80,000 of his own citizens?
  12. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a civil war?
  13. uftaipan
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    uftaipan Well-Known Member

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    I notice that we're not even discussing getting authorization from Congress in accordance with the law. See, it is already an underlying assumption that this President will assume dictatorial powers and conduct war without so much as a GFYS to the people's representatives.
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Well first probably because Congress is in recess.

    Second, because it would likely follow a Libya game plan.
  15. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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  16. HallGator
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    I think we can trace this back to at least Mr. Lincoln.
  17. uftaipan
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    uftaipan Well-Known Member

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    The President has had over a year to seek statutory authority in the event that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons. He probably would have gotten it. And the fact that he had it in writing would have served as a deterrent to Assad. The President did not seek it because to do so would be to admit publicly that he does not have the absolute power to make war on his own.

    Of course, he's following the Libya gameplan, which is of course to make war unilaterally without the approval of Congress. They did not force a war powers crisis last time. Why should they this time?
  18. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it weird for people then to clamor for him to do in Syria what he did in Libya?
  19. uftaipan
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    uftaipan Well-Known Member

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    Lincoln? Really?

    Okay. I'll play.

    First, the War Powers Resolution was not in effect under Lincoln. Second, even if it had been, the states in rebellion triggered Presidential war powers pursuant to §1541(c)(3) by attacking Fort Sumter (has there been a Syrian attack on the U.S., its territories, possessions, or armed forces?). Third, the Civil War was an insurrection within the United States, not war on a foreign power.

    I don't even disagree with the idea that Syrian use of WMDs should trigger a world response. But in the United States we should go about things in the correct way. The correct way involves going to Congress except in the case of a national emergency, which this is not.
  20. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    So this is the Ole recess war. Fantastic

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