Obama Gives Muslim Nation $195,000,000 For Muslim Holiday

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by diehardgator1, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    If you can get past the political question issue (that the conduct of foreign affairs is, perhaps more so that any other governmental activity, firmly committed to the political branches of government and thus the judiciary should stay out) you could ask the courts.

    I would guess your answer would be the general welfare prong of the spending clause though. US v. Butler adopted the Hamiltonian view of the clause (that it confers a power to spend for public purposes that is not constrained to spending only on the designated legislative powers, but instead allows spending on anything that "provides for the general welfare"): "the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution." The courts have been quite deferential to Congress's determination of what provides for the general welfare.

    The Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 contains congressional findings as to why foreign aid provides for the general welfare of the citizens of the US:

    So to answer your question? Look in Article I, Section 8, Clause 1.
  2. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall nor expect that anyone could point to anyone else here making a claim that those who fleece the system should receive assistance or that assistance should be a permanent state (though poverty and joblessness are more complex than simpleminded notions of people not wanting to work--which if you don't realize is exactly vilifying the poor or unemployed by generalizing about all of them). The tougher question though is determining who the people are that are fleecing the system.

    It's debatable about whether we have business or not sending them money. I can see some decent arguments on both sides but quite frankly, I can't get upset about money being used to help some people in very desperate circumstances.
  3. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    It has not happened in this thread, but it seems whenever someone points to waste/fraud, someone else accuses that party of not caring about the poor, etc. That somehow that translates into not wanting to help our fellow man.
  4. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    No I don't know that the aid wasn't already in the foreign aid budget. However, considering the UN request timing, plus actually announcing it at this point versus when the current budget came out, I would guess it wasn't. If you can find a source that says otherwise, please post it so we can see it.

    Now as far as Israel, I didn't say to stop the weapons. Did you see the size of the economic package on that link, which is separate from the military package? If you take even half of that and give it to the Syrians it would make a difference.

    As far as foreign aid, do you want the US to aid those who are incredibly needy as is your argument for the Syrian refugees, or because it's politically important (as it would be with Israel)? You keep talking about how something has to be done about the Syrian crisis, about how horrific the situation is, how extraordinary the circumstances are - then put the money towards that versus sending it to a country that can handle itself temporarily. It's not a permanent change, as the Syrian situation is a current crisis. Yes, I understand foreign aid is mostly political. Well, wouldn't aiding the Syrians be humanitarian and political?

    By the way, if in your opinion the card is not "maxed out" because we can still charge/borrow, what's going to happen when we hit that point and then there's no fixing the situation? You think that Syria, Kenya, Israel, and other countries are going to come bail the US out?
  5. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Fair point...but it's also true that when govt assistance comes up in a thread, inevitably quite a few on the right side of the aisle make it about African Americans and/or they make sweeping generalizations about all poor being criminals who fleece the system, or are lazy parasites...while consistently ignoring the fact that nearly 60% of those in poverty are elderly, children, or full time workers between ages 18 and 64.

    How should this be interpreted?
  6. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    Let's shove a holiday nuke down their stovepipe.
  7. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Yeah, I'm familiar. To say that's a stretch is an understatement.
  8. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I think it should be interpreted as representing the extreme end of the spectrum, just like there are extremes on the other side. Most common sense people would know better than to paint everyone with the same brush....no matter what the side.
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  9. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    On that, icequeen, we absolutely agree. :)
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  10. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    Any foreign aid is a total joke. We absolutely shouldn't be borrowing money just to give it to someone else.

    Let them borrow themselves. Why do we have to do it?

    I have no idea how anyone can justify foreign aid that doesn't have an obvious reason that will benefit America.
  11. oragator1
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    oragator1 Premium Member

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    2 points, first as mentioned earlier in this thread, the fact that the constitution does not mention foreign aid is why for the first century or more of our country we didn't give it - it is a relatively modern invention.

    Having said that, foreign aid is truly an investment. We expect long term return on most of the money we spend in other countries, through economic investment, political alliances that save us money or help us implement what we want, or sometimes just doing the right thing has similar benefits.
    In this case, you claim they can borrow money. The country is in chaos, who or how is the borrowing going to happen? It's like saying drought ridden Ethiopians can borrow money, it just isn't realistic. And in this case,if and when a new government is formed and it buys us some goodwill in Syria but also in the broader Arab world, how do you put a dollar value to that? Heck even one less terrorist attack as a result of any goodwill would save us that amount many times over. But also what is an ally in the region worth considering how much we spend there?

    True story, in June I was on a flight from Tampa back up to DC, Arab kid sitting next to me and we got to talking. He was from Kuwait, close to graduating from a college in Florida and was on his way home for the summer. We talked about the war, his views of the US etc, how the Kuwaiti government would pay to send him to any college he wanted to go to anywhere. He said he remembered the invasion as a kid, and the joy as the US troops liberated them. He chose the US for school because he wanted to spend his money in the country that had saved him and his people. He also spent his vacations before college here for the same reason.
    Helping others has long term benefits that can't always be quantified in addition to it being the right thing to do sometimes.
  12. GatorNorth
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    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

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    And you probably consider yourself a "good Christian"

    Shameful.
  13. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Surely the Prez is aware of Islam's view of homosexuality?
  14. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    the website the OP provided link to is an ultracon spin site a la Faux, etc.

    dear OP---try not to be so obvious in your BS spin
  15. VAg8r1
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    VAg8r1 Well-Known Member

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    Approximately 150 million Americans pay taxes. Doing a quick calculation that means it will be costing each taxpayer around $1.30 to provide food aid for the Syrian refugees. Being a bleeding heart liberal I have no problem with paying a $1.30 to prevent starvation and malnutrition.
  16. VAg8r1
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    VAg8r1 Well-Known Member

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    In case anyone wants to know where the $195 million is going.
    USAID
    Contrary to the original post and linked article, none of the aid is going to the government of Syria.
  17. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    Here is the OFFICIAL WHITE HOUSE PRESS RELEASE just in case you liberals are hanging your hats on discrediting Faux News as you call it.

    http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2013/08/report_obama_ha.php

    [...] Michelle and I send our warmest greetings to Muslims celebrating Eid al-Fitr here in the United States and around the world. During the past month, Muslims have honored their faith through prayer and service, fasting and time spent with loved ones.

    [...] To help the many Syrians in need this Eid al-Fitr, the United States is providing an additional $195 million in food aid and other humanitarian aid, bringing our humanitarian contribution to the Syrian people to over $1 billion since the crisis began. For millions of Americans, Eid is part of a great tapestry of America's many traditions, and I wish all Muslims a blessed and joyful celebration. Eid Mubarak.

    Barak Hussein Obama is not a muslim..... :ninja:
  18. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Great - take part of the aid from Israel and put it to that use. You're helping the needy and that's already in the budget.
  19. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Who authorizes these money gifts from the POTUS... I thought the congress was the only branch of government that could okay funds and money giving or even spent?

    Where does this money originate?
  20. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    At our grocery store, we have "check out hunger" for the United Way. Each time you go through the register they ask you if you want to donate $1, $3, $5 or another amount. Now I'm at the store 4-5 times a week sometimes in winter because the produce pretty much doesn't last. So if I were to say "well it's just $5", then I'm looking at $80-$100 a month on "check out hunger". Then my husband gives "a little" to the United Way by having some deducted from his check. Then we give at both collections at Church. Then the kids have fundraisers for the poor. Then there's Christmas gifts for the poor. Then there's the Food Bank constantly asking for donations. Then there's the kids in Central America. Then there's the Save the Hungry groups for Africa..........

    So in other words, if you keep saying yes to everyone because "it's a good cause", at some point YOU'RE going to be the one who is in need and there will be no one left to bail you out.

    This is what that reminds me of. Yes, it's a terrible situation. Yes, people should help. If it's that bad then prioritize. If it's that dire, then divert funds going to other countries that don't need it and put it to better use with those that do. Collect goods also, and then have the UN go in and distribute them versus just sending money.

    Go visit food banks throughout the country that are low or out of supplies, and you'll see plenty of need there. Look at those who are still recovering from natural disasters because they don't have the money to rebuild, or can't get their jobs back.

    What I don't like is that it's another burden on the tax base of the US at a time when our own government is not functioning, has employees on furlough, has people who can't get medical coverage through work, and frankly cannot pay it's own bills or take care of its own people. At some point you have to say "Not today, thank you", take your groceries and go home.

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